100%

What would be required for a 100% run? On my hero mode file I tried to get 100% but then I didn't care for time. Obviously all heart pieces and all items (upgraded if possible, like lv3 master sword, red mail and hylian shield) on the 'gear' tab, and all 100 Maiamais.

Would getting blue mail be necessary?  Because when you get red mail, it just 'overwrites' the blue mail. And would upgrading all items be necessary? And getting the great spin attack?

Also, the bee badge is kinda RNG dependant. I got like 5 gold bees on my 2nd playthrough but none on my 1st. I ended up accidentally buying one in the skull woods for 888 rupees from some dude in a cave...

I'd say the blue mail wouldn't be necessary. Just like the Goron Bracelet and Silver Gauntlets aren't counted in OoT 100%. And yeah, upgrading all items should probably be counted including getting the great spin. As for the Bee Badge, just plan the route out to get the 888 rupee one, but have some optional rupee chests cut out alon the if you get it the rng way.

I'd like to think that all of this is required... I'm sure a lot of people will agree:

* All 20 Hearts
* All Items (Bought and upgraded)
* 100 Maiamai's (obviously need these for the upgrade, but still)
* Great Spin (100 Maiamai reward)
* Level 2 Master Sword (Butter Blade)
* Stamina Scroll (skippable?? I think, but it's in the gear menu)
* Bee Badge (it's in the gear menu)
* Hylian Shield (skippable, but it's an upgrade)
* Pegasus Boots (in case someone finds some glitch to do the race without them, they still show up in the gear menu)
* Red mail (Best mail) - I guess, like ALTTP, the Blue one isn't required if you can go straight to red.
* Hint Glasses - not a fan of this but it is an item and it does show up in the menus...
* All 5 Bottles
* Bug Net

I think I'm missing something, if I am... feel free to correct me.


ALSO, I would like to route in just buying the Golden Bee to get rid of some bullshit reset fest of no golden bee before Lorule... But we all know we'll probably just go for RNG...

You missed the 5 bottles. (And maybe the bugnet, since I guess it's skippable if you get the golden bee for 888 rupees)

Chamros wrote

You missed the 5 bottles. (And maybe the bugnet, since I guess it's skippable if you get the golden bee for 888 rupees)

Added. Good point.

There's apparently a bug net and lantern upgrade for completing the last level of tower of treachery twice or whatever its called.

mzxrules wrote

There's apparently a bug net and lantern upgrade for completing the last level of tower of treachery twice or whatever its called.

I'll go test that right now, will report back soon..

edit: ok so yea, theres 2 upgrades, both require you to complete advanced (3rd difficulty, you get the HP from completing the 2nd) in treacherous tower. This also earns you like 4-5k rupees per completion.

mzxrules wrote

There's apparently a bug net and lantern upgrade for completing the last level of tower of treachery twice or whatever its called.

The official guide book says this, so I'd assume it's right. It would count towards 100%.

It is correct. I have both upgrades. It makes them 8 times stronger, and prefix them with "Good".
First Lantern, then Net. (So you must do 2 runs, and clear the 2 previous difficulties) You need original net to upgrade it obviously.

This is true, there is a super bug and super lamp... it may also be a good place to get money in 100% (the tower)

New List:


* All 20 Hearts
* All Items (Bought and upgraded)
* 100 Maiamai's (obviously need these for the upgrade, but still)
* Great Spin (100 Maiamai reward)
* Level 2 Master Sword (Butter Blade)
* Stamina Scroll (skippable?? I think, but it's in the gear menu)
* Bee Badge (it's in the gear menu)
* Hylian Shield (skippable, but it's an upgrade)
* Pegasus Boots (in case someone finds some glitch to do the race without them, they still show up in the gear menu)
* Red mail (Best mail) - I guess, like ALTTP, the Blue one isn't required if you can go straight to red.
* Hint Glasses - not a fan of this but it is an item and it does show up in the menus...
* All 5 Bottles
* Super Bug Net
* Super Lamp

Just for convenience, here is a list of all HP, and how to get them
http://www.zeldadungeon.net/wiki/A_Link_Between_Worlds_Heart_Pieces

Maimai's
http://www.ign.com/wikis/the-legend-of-zelda-a-link-between-worlds/Maiamai_Locations

This is the category I am really looking forward to, like, I am so hyped for this. 

Would Activating all of the Bird statues count towards 100%? And what about entering the Fissures? Both of those appear on the map, so should we count them?

You definitely need to survive the endless cucco minigame for 999 seconds to get the cucco in link's house reward for true 100%.

In all seriousness I think that all compasses should be added to the list. I also agree that activating all weather vanes should be added, but I'm not sure about "all fissures." Fissures are always accessible and they don't count as a collectible unless you consider updating the map as a collectible. Either way, I vote no on that seeing as that would potentially be a pain in the ass for 100%.

Crankeey wrote

You definitely need to survive the endless cucco minigame for 999 seconds to get the cucco in link's house reward for true 100%.

In all seriousness I think that all compasses should be added to the list. I also agree that activating all weather vanes should be added, but I'm not sure about "all fissures." Fissures are always accessible and they don't count as a collectible unless you consider updating the map as a collectible. Either way, I vote no on that seeing as that would potentially be a pain in the ass for 100%.

You'd honestly enter most ot the fissueres in 100% either way, because many of them leads to Maiamai which aren't obtainable otherwise, others take you to the next zone in Lorule, so it wouldn't make a big difference at all. I wouldn't really care if it's required or not, but I am pretty sure that it wouldn't be a big difference, probably a few of the Stone Pillar Fissuers would be removed, and maybe at a river, but that's about all I can think of right now.

Forgot to put this in this topic, I posted it in the Glitches/Tricks/Timesaving topic earlier:

Swamp Palace early switch via upgraded Bow thought of by FaschZ, ZFG and myself.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3PZdyNhCzEI

CloudMax wrote

You'd honestly enter most ot the fissueres in 100% either way, because many of them leads to Maiamai which aren't obtainable otherwise, others take you to the next zone in Lorule, so it wouldn't make a big difference at all. I wouldn't really care if it's required or not, but I am pretty sure that it wouldn't be a big difference, probably a few of the Stone Pillar Fissuers would be removed, and maybe at a river, but that's about all I can think of right now.

Okay so it probably wouldn't be hard to accomplish. Either way, seeing as how you're not required to get every chest in a dungeon even though it updates the dungeon map you shouldn't be required to enter all fissures for the same reason. They're always accessible, unlike the weather vanes you need to activate in order to have them unlocked.

Getting 999 seconds for a 100% run sounds completely stupid. Surviving for 17 minutes in that game is super nearly impossible hard. Making that an official rule for 100% would lead to very very few runs being actually completed. and any runs completed would all have to be segmented so runners could repeat that segment hundreds of times until they got it so time wouldn't be lost. I personally vote no for this requirement. Unlock endless mode by beating advanced for heart piece, that's it... ;)

zT DeFuZeD wrote

Getting 999 seconds for a 100% run sounds completely stupid. Surviving for 17 minutes in that game is super nearly impossible hard. Making that an official rule for 100% would lead to very very few runs being actually completed. and any runs completed would all have to be segmented so runners could repeat that segment hundreds of times until they got it so time wouldn't be lost. I personally vote no for this requirement. Unlock endless mode by beating advanced for heart piece, that's it... ;)

...the better question is why people are still discussing this, joke or not.

Crankeey wrote

Okay so it probably wouldn't be hard to accomplish. Either way, seeing as how you're not required to get every chest in a dungeon even though it updates the dungeon map you shouldn't be required to enter all fissures for the same reason. They're always accessible, unlike the weather vanes you need to activate in order to have them unlocked.

Yes, I totally understand. I'm not saying that I actually want them to be entered, I just mean that it wouldn't make a difference to me. I would honestly prefer if it wasn't required though.
And to be honest, I've never liked the idea of skipping dungeon chests, I always collect them all in my 100% files, which I can imagine most people would do, but it's simply not required in speeruns because people don't want to bother with it, which to be honest is a shitty reason. Requiring them would make for more interesting dungeon routes, and tricks, which would improve the watching value. Dungeons will basically be identical to any% in a 100% at this point.
However, I know no one will ever change the 100% definition to include a thing such as dungeon chests because at this point everyone consider it useless and dumb, so I won't even bother trying to convince anyone of this, ever. (Hell, people even think getting compass shouldn't be required, how would I ever convince them to get a monster gut or rupee chest)

CloudMax wrote

Yes, I totally understand. I'm not saying that I actually want them to be entered, I just mean that it wouldn't make a difference to me. I would honestly prefer if it wasn't required though.
And to be honest, I've never liked the idea of skipping dungeon chests, I always collect them all in my 100% files, which I can imagine most people would do, but it's simply not required in speeruns because people don't want to bother with it, which to be honest is a shitty reason. Requiring them would make for more interesting dungeon routes, and tricks, which would improve the watching value. Dungeons will basically be identical to any% in a 100% at this point.
However, I know no one will ever change the 100% definition to include a thing such as dungeon chests because at this point everyone consider it useless and dumb, so I won't even bother trying to convince anyone of this, ever. (Hell, people even think getting compass shouldn't be required, how would I ever convince them to get a monster gut or rupee chest)

Here is a thought... probably won't happen.... but why not not split the 100% category into two categories. One called 100% regular, and one called 100%(plus 100% dungeons) that way there is no arguing. just a thought I dunno. I just hope some "official" rules come out soon so I can actually try to make a legal run at this.

I don't consider opening all dungeon chests "useless and dumb," but there are reasons to not include it. TP is a good reason. If you're maxed out on rupees (easy to do) you have to put them back in the chest which would mean leaving the dungeon and buying shit to open up every chest. Not to mention opening up every overworld chest would be necessary with the same logic and that's nealy impossible to prove in a speedrun.

-Defuzed, the reason for defining 100% is to avoid separate official categories, not to create more...

Here's a poll people can vote for what's necessary in 100%. It was shared in #albw and Alphaparticle wanted someone to post it for him https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1OVZRPwZSWuTLF4g462WES_kw6pw4ZaxqzYOvenza0qE/viewform

I'm seeing all this talk about going straight to the red mail... does this actually work? I would think that Lorule Castle's chest would give you the blue mail if you don't have it already, with the swamp's chest then giving you red at that point.

Crankeey wrote

Here's a poll people can vote for what's necessary in 100%. It was shared in #albw and Alphaparticle wanted someone to post it for him https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1OVZRPwZSWuTLF4g462WES_kw6pw4ZaxqzYOvenza0qE/viewform

...why are half of these even options? The only thing that should even be debated is the compasses.... the rest of these are either complete obvious Yes choices or completely retarded choices... such as the 999 second Cucco game. Not a single person will ever do this in a run... I'm guessing you're just goofing around and joking with it.

corneliab wrote

I'm seeing all this talk about going straight to the red mail... does this actually work? I would think that Lorule Castle's chest would give you the blue mail if you don't have it already, with the swamp's chest then giving you red at that point.

In the logic of ALTTP, even though this isn't ALTTP, it would work... They're two separate items and probably do not have flags attached to each other... Give it a try in a file sometime if you're super curious, but it's 99% likely we can go straight to red mail.

Volvagia wrote

...why are half of these even options? The only thing that should even be debated is the compasses.... the rest of these are either complete obvious Yes choices or completely retarded choices... such as the 999 second Cucco game. Not a single person will ever do this in a run... I'm guessing you're just goofing around and joking with it.

I put everything I could think of -- I pulled most of it from this very thread. I didn't even know 999 cucco was a thing until I read it here. Yes most are obvious (as I even said in the doc). No it wasn't meant to be official. I just wanted to see what people were split on. It's obviously not a super serious poll. <'><

Blue Mail might be a good idea depending on how early Treacherous Tower is done, which the earlier, the better, since it's the #1 way for rupees and we have to clear it four times anyway for all upgrades. Not exactly a necessity, but a luxury, for sure. How much time is lost from getting the Blue Mail, anyway? I don't recall it being explicitly out of the way.. I think.

Yes, but in all honesty, the treacherous tower is actually quite easy to do. Since this is only done in 100% percent you obviously will have everything(besides red mail) already aqcuired. So take upgraded fire rod and tornado rod+ great spin attack. This makes treacherous tower the 50 floors of boom all dead in seconds tower. ;D

Volvagia wrote

...why are half of these even options? The only thing that should even be debated is the compasses.... the rest of these are either complete obvious Yes choices or completely retarded choices... such as the 999 second Cucco game. Not a single person will ever do this in a run... I'm guessing you're just goofing around and joking with it.

When I first brought it up I was joking about the cucco, I had no idea others would actually take it seriously. Also, not my poll ._.

For what actually matters:
-No compasses, it seems people generally prefer this and it's best to stay consistent with alttp 100% rules where applicable.
-All weather vanes, ZFG's been routing it this way and it's a logical decision, most will agree.
-Portals aren't required, there are some portals that aren't necessary to go through yes, but there's no reason to merge through all of them. There's no reward and they're always active as said before.

I say we just add weather vanes to the list and finalize it.

Crankeey wrote

When I first brought it up I was joking about the cucco, I had no idea others would actually take it seriously. Also, not my poll ._.

I didn't take it very seriously. I added it to the poll because it's a thing in the game. I think it's silly that anyone got upset about such a poll.

Why even discuss what constitutes "100%" if you're going to automatically dismiss a few things? I agree with the general opinion here (yes weather vanes, no compasses or portals) but I wasn't going to exclude things because of that, even if it seems really stupid (maxed minigames).

We discuss it because quite simply there's nothing that actively tracks the % you have completed the game as. Some things are relevant for dismissal for a lot of reasons. A completionist, like I, would talk to every single NPC and read every single point of dialog available, but do we count that as part of 100%? No, not really.

In Zelda games, most people consider anything that increases power or utility as part of 100%. Weather Vanes increase utility because it increases the amount of places you can warp to. Playing a Cucco Minigame for 20 minutes to get a statue that is purely cosmetic is neither of these. Similarly, OoT 100% doesn't get the Cow in Link's House.

That said, filling out the map with the Portals doesn't really increase either power or utility because they're always there anyway.

--

I've been working on a 100% route last night and today. I'm about to head into work for a double-shift, so I won't be able to complete it until probably Monday. This pastebin details how far I've gotten. There's a few mistakes in the numbers that I need to revise once I go back through it again.

The basic idea goes:
. Follow any% route except get more $$$ until Lorule
. Thieves Hideout -> Skull Woods -> Tempered Sword & Hyrule Minigames -> Swamp Vane -> Ice Ruins -> Desert Palace -> Lorule Minigames (Possibly?) -> Dark Palace
. From there, general clean up with a few necessities: need to get lots of rupees, likely from the Treacherous Tower. Lots and lots of rupees. A lot of Maiamai clean-up. Last two dungeons in whichever order shows to be optimal. Buttered Master Sword whenever.
. Finish game.

I won't get to play but I'll try to keep up with the thread over the weekend, if anyone has comments or concerns on this. The final clean-up is very rough in my mind as I haven't been able to mark down notes while playing through what I think will work.