Allowing RBA for 100%

What's the problem with skipping ganon if you're already skipping m/c/bk which are actual items? Killing ganon gives no item and is not the only way to trigger the end sequence. The fastest method of triggering the end should be done imo, whether it's killing ganon or doing ww to the credits. If the category was actually based on completion, would you not do all extra non-trivial things like obtain m/c/bk, cow in house, etc? It seems completely contrary to me.
Either way with all the setup r0bd0g has said, I really doubt ganonless would be faster for 100% with all the setup and you're losing out on the other benefits of the wrong warps currently done.

nathanisbored wrote

How about "Complete the inventory and beat the game, using the intended quests to do it" and credits warp should not be allowed? Same logic.

I honestly dont have a good argument against this besides just saying "I like my version more."

quo wrote

100% is a completionist category, no reason why killing the end boss should be cut out imo

cafde wrote

Either way with all the setup r0bd0g has said, I really doubt ganonless would be faster for 100% with all the setup and you're losing out on the other benefits of the wrong warps currently done.

Like it has been said, ganonless is already allowed and the reason it isnt done is because its (Edit: probably) slower. If a new route is found where it would save time this whole thing could be argued again, but I see no reason to actually ban it now. Even if that did come up, I would be against banning it.

At the moment, the only effect of banning ganonless would be either invalidating oot3d 100% runs, or having the two games follow separate rulesets. While I know that you shouldnt usually focus on other games to base your game on, (and that most of you couldnt care less about oot3d runs,) why would you create that problem if theres no reason to even do it

Why is everyone so focused on things that give you items? The idea of a 100% type category is completion, whether it's levels, items, secrets, bosses, etc. It should still be up to a community consensus to decide what should actually be required, but since when was it only about items? Since when did objectives that "don't give you anything" suddenly become irrelevant? Beating the game doesn't give you anything, we still require that. Frankly if we wanted to we could add even add objectives that don't save to the file. Some games do that. I find it weird that we emphasize items so strongly in a game that has a glitch to give you free items of all things. If anything we should be avoiding defining things by items for this reason. All I ask is that we don't dismiss objectives so quickly based on the fact that traditionally items have been the standard. Isn't this thread all about breaking tradition?

I think the new nocturne warp very-likely makes Ganonless faster for real now, so it should probably be figured out what you're going to do. Under the current definition, skipping Ganon is allowed...

r0bd0g wrote

I think the new nocturne warp very-likely makes Ganonless faster for real now, so it should probably be figured out what you're going to do. Under the current definition, skipping Ganon is allowed...

Agreed, as well as deciding on RBA ASAP.  I have a new route idea using the new wrong warp that requires RBA and I don't want to route if for nothing, this really needs to be decided right now.  Maybe some #zelda discussion tomorrow?

We're allowed to put bottle over deku nuts and reobtain the nuts, we should be able to put bugs on medallions and reobtain them. This is because the game's natural logic overwrites it just like gold gauntlets completely overwrite silver gauntlets.

Cafde mentioned cow in house which is similar to raising water in lake hylia and talking to the girl on the kokiri shop, her text permanently chages after one time. There's a lot of permanent things which do nothing towards game completion.

And i agree with Nathan where its not just about getting the items, its progressing the game's completion and in the end there should not be stuff like heart pieces, bottles or medallions left to obtain, they should be gotten and in Link's backpack. Ganon and dungeons i feel like they should be a requirement. IMO it doesn't feel like beating the game if you just warp to credits and end it. Even having a medallion and then beating the temple means something.

just as a 2 cents, using the "only things you obtain are needed for 100%" logic, you could get all obtainable items and end the run when you get the last one since beating the final boss and watching credits don't give you anything extra to the game file. your file would be technically 100% complete already.

was going to say for allowing RBA for 1.2 players would we be allowed to RBA trade items. For example, since we need to go up to odd potion before child 2, would we be allowed to rba the 3 stones + SoT, (at this point DC is already beaten). Beat Jabu in child2.. and finish in Deku tree as Adult link and warp into castle to fight Ganon. We would still obtain both stones we rba'd. point is, we would be able to get Ocarina of time without having actually beaten deku tree and Jabu at that point. last stop would be deku tree.. only difference in Adult 2 would have to be beating Shadow and Spirit earlier and obtaining light arrows before getting BGS since you'd need to venture in ganons castle to get Golden Gauntlets.. however its just an idea.. much like ganonless 1.0 1.1 you warp in fire, 1.2 DC in 100% 1.0 1.1 you need to 1080 :P and 1.2 you can Ganondoor :P

Has it been confirmed that you obtain stones/medallions even after you have RBA'd them? I know if you RBA say spirit medallion then stepping in the warp of spirit temple doesn't give you a cutscene.

the only thing I realize about rba odd potion for 1.2 is we would need to obtain SoS right later in the run meaning we wouldn't go into windmill til after.. but with new RBA quick draw we could get bottle B just before getting Nocturne.. only problem is I don't know if it would be worth doing that at that point its only like small time loss.. but deku tree adult would be a lot faster.. with FW and that 2-3-1 skip I saw the other day from compass room