n64 loose joysticks and replacements

Hey guys, i guess everyone who has ever played with a n64 controller had issues with the joystick being too loose. I'm wondering how you guys fixed it since a decent joystick is pretty important for speedrunning. Also there are replacement joysticks for n64 controllers, has anyone ever used such a 3rd party joystick and knows if it really affects gameplay and especially the difficulty of holding ESS position?
Thanks guys :)

I haven't used third party control sticks myself, but I recommend by a replacement sticks from ebay. Then you can very easily replace the old one with the new one. This is at least what I'm doing. Then when you have replaced it, I really recommend to put some not really sticky oil in it. Just a little bit to make sure it doesn't get to reading sensors. If this happens and it isn't working anymore. Then you need to disamble it and clean it thoroughly. At least this is what happened to me few times :)

Zeldoge wrote

Also there are replacement joysticks for n64 controllers, has anyone ever used such a 3rd party joystick and knows if it really affects gameplay and especially the difficulty of holding ESS position?
Thanks guys :)

There are GCN-style replacement sticks that make the sensitivity extremely high even though you're playing with an N64 controller on an N64. This is bad for ess

Cosmo wrote

There are GCN-style replacement sticks that make the sensitivity extremely high even though you're playing with an N64 controller on an N64. This is bad for ess

I got some of these for very cheap. I can vouch for this, the deadzone is ridiculous and the sensitivity also. They also have lag meaning if you want to do a side hop, you have to push left or right way earlier than pushing 'a'. There is a fix for them but it is still annoying to do it.

The N64 style replacement sticks definitely are not any better than real N64 sticks. I would look for second hand N64 controllers. There are still a lot of good N64 controllers out there for sure.

This is also a good resource: http://s9.zetaboards.com/Nintendo_64_Forever/topic/7360571/1/

I wish Nintendo would start reproducing N64 controllers, just like GC controllers.  :D

3rd party sticks are really bad, especialy the Gamecube like stick, but, if you really want to use a N64 controller, you should get a new one on Ebay...well, that's my opinion.

I heared that you can use some tape to fix your stick, but, it won't last for long.

Bernacaz wrote

I heared that you can use some tape to fix your stick, but, it won't last for long.

And it will suck anyways.

There are a lot of parts that wear out: a bowl over which the joystick slides, the joystick itself and the gears. I think if you replace the bowl, it will make the biggest difference. If only someone could cast that out of metal.  :P

Metal would just wear out the other parts.

Has anyone tried this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEJmSQjONRg

?

Irregular programming wrote

Metal would just wear out the other parts.

Has anyone tried this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEJmSQjONRg

?

I have actually. It fixed the control stick being loose. I was unable to give the bowl the same curve. This made precise control rather difficult. The control stick would stick at certain positions and then you would have to push hard to get it to move again, making it fly further than you want. I still had to sand down the bowl a bit further, but I already did not have much faith in it anymore, so I decided to stop with it. You need a good controller if you want to speedrun. Keep in mind that most of the people showing these fixes are more casual players. Usually if it is something you fix by hand, you will lose precision.

If your control stick is broken anyways, then it does not hurt to give it a try. But still, it sucks compared to a good control stick.

whyieyesya wrote

I have actually. It fixed the control stick being loose. I was unable to give the bowl the same curve. This made precise control rather difficult. The control stick would stick at certain positions and then you would have to push hard to get it to move again, making it fly further than you want. I still had to sand down the bowl a bit further, but I already did not have much faith in it anymore, so I decided to stop with it. You need a good controller if you want to speedrun. Keep in mind that most of the people showing these fixes are more casual players. Usually if it is something you fix by hand, you will lose precision.

If your control stick is broken anyways, then it does not hurt to give it a try. But still, it sucks compared to a good control stick.

Ok, that's unfortunate.

Irregular programming wrote

Ok, that's unfortunate.

You can still try it though. This was just my experience. Perhaps you have more patience to reconstruct the bowl nicely.

Although I'm just begging for the legions of purists to cry havoc, my honest thought is that the best way to overcome the wearing down stick debacle is to use replacements that are durable and good quality, then just adapt them (n64-n64 or n64-gc) a la whyieyesya's standard ones to correct for the poor control stick mapping.

IE: I use this stick for smash64 because the hypersensitivity isn't a problem for that game (in some cases it's useful):

http://www.amazon.com/Redesigned-REPLACEMENT-Joystick-Controller-Thumbstick/dp/B009MRZAUC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1437259168&sr=8-1&keywords=n64+replacement+stick

It's good quality, hasn't gotten loose, and feels like a gamecube stick. Why not just adapt the mapping of this stick or a similar one to match the original mapping?

SilentKnight115 wrote

Although I'm just begging for the legions of purists to cry havoc, my honest thought is that the best way to overcome the wearing down stick debacle is to use replacements that are durable and good quality, then just adapt them (n64-n64 or n64-gc) a la whyieyesya's standard ones to correct for the poor control stick mapping.

IE: I use this stick for smash64 because the hypersensitivity isn't a problem for that game (in some cases it's useful):

http://www.amazon.com/Redesigned-REPLACEMENT-Joystick-Controller-Thumbstick/dp/B009MRZAUC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1437259168&sr=8-1&keywords=n64+replacement+stick

It's good quality, hasn't gotten loose, and feels like a gamecube stick. Why not just adapt the mapping of this stick or a similar one to match the original mapping?

I have a few of those lying here (was able to get 4 of them for about 10$, so it was a great deal, obviously the guy wanted to get rid of these shitty replacement sticks). I am not sure if they can be fixed this way. One thing I noticed is that the sticks have a huge amount of lag. When I tried to do a side hop with sword out, Link would just do a jump slash. I actually had to push left/right slightly before pushing A, to do a sidehop. That is how bad the lag is.  There is a small chip inside the analog stick that is checking the analog sticks value. Apparently that is done too slow and it can not be fixed with an external adapter. Furthermore, the deadzone might be a case where there is no output noticeable from the analog stick for a long time, in that case an external adapter would not help either.

I can totally give it a try though, perhaps  the deadzone issue can be fixed this way. One thing I am afraid of though is that there is a lot of differences between these sticks. I actually also read about people not having any problems with these sticks. Perhaps they do not notice. Perhaps there are different versions out there.

There is a guy selling a custom PCB that goes inside the replacement stick. It resolves all these issues. I believe he sells it for 10$. You do need to solder I think and you also need to somehow open the stick's case, since it is glued..

One more thing, I am not sure I really like these GC style sticks. Imo, the N64 analog stick gives you very precise control. It is very easy to hold ess in place.

Maybe we need to find someone who is really good with 3D printing, although I am not sure if we can make strong enough parts with that.. If only we could get the mold that Nintendo used..

I ended up salvaging my broken ique's stick base and putting silicone in there, hopefully it will last longer.

But buying new iQues isn't really an affordable way to get new controllers.

Irregular programming wrote

I ended up salvaging my broken ique's stick base and putting silicone in there, hopefully it will last longer.

But buying new iQues isn't really an affordable way to get new controllers.

What is broken about your iQue?

whyieyesya wrote

What is broken about your iQue?

The soldering was bad on one of the cables going from the shoulder buttons. 

Irregular programming wrote

The soldering was bad on one of the cables going from the shoulder buttons. 

That should totally be fixable.  :P

whyieyesya wrote

That should totally be fixable.  :P

I tried, but it's a very fine soldering point and it's not fixable with the normal iron that I had.

I was thinking of paying someone professional to fix it but I don't even run any% anymore so I just haven't gotten around to it.

Good news perhaps. It seems there is a new revision of the GC style replacement stick. The maker of the GC style replacement sticks seems to be hyperkin. This seems to be the old version. However, they now have a new one. This seems to be a revision.

Someone on Assemblergames got one. The top is now rubber instead of plastic. Furthermore he says the sensitivity is good and there is no big deadzone any longer. On the Hyperkin website they also specificly state: "Works with Goldeneye on N64".

I think I will try to get one, they seem to be going for around 13-15$ including shipping.

I just got one of the new GCN styled sticks and it's not good for OOT. Deadzone feels almost like MM VC. Range isn't very good, there's a good amount of space between diagonals that only register the cardinal directions. The notches in the base have little effect on the stick, so it ends up feeling like a controller without notches. Pretty disappointed with this. Might be okay for other games, but for OOT it's essentially useless.

Does your stick have rubber on the top? Just wondering if it is the newest revision.

whyieyesya wrote

Does your stick have rubber on the top? Just wondering if it is the newest revision.

Yes. Checked to make sure it was the same model from the Hyperkin site and everything before ordering.

xxshawn wrote

Yes. Checked to make sure it was the same model from the Hyperkin site and everything before ordering.

That sucks to hear. I guess it also does not really help that the stick is smaller than the GameCube stick (otherwise it would not fit). That will make it more sensitive as well. But I figured if the deadzones made sense it would not really matter that much for ess. Angle changing would be a bit more difficult though, but that is not that important for most categories.

I guess these sticks are good enough for casual gaming.