MM3D: Questions & Answers

Post questions about speedrunning, glitches, theories, etc. and hopefully someone more knowledgeable on that topic will be able to get back to you shortly.

PLEASE POST QUESTONS HERE INSTEAD OF MAKING A NEW THREAD!!! This really helps to keep the forums clean and neat!

Also it is prefers that questions be placed here instead of the Tricks and Discoveries thread considering that thread gets cluttered enough as it is.

Thank you

Do we know why Gibdo BA relies on some invisible timer?

BigHairyFart wrote

Do we know why Gibdo BA relies on some invisible timer?

It has to do with the way MM3D uses its own internal timer. It's a 64 bit timer, and as like most timers, it constantly writes bytes to a certain address, and at certain points, it writes to certain bytes that, when paired with Gibdo BA, causes weird crud to happen. This is as much as I know about it.

I'm not actually sure why BA relies on the timer. A good person to ask might be Keeta because as far as I'm aware, it works very similarly, if not exactly the same as how BA works with the games internal timer on N64.

Basically, when you do BA, you are writing in the values for the Hot Spring Water to unintended locations in the game's memory. The first chunk of numbers that the HSW writes is the time that you caught the HSW, based on a timer that starts counting up from when you started the game. So, by having the game on for different amounts of time, it writes different values and causes different results. EDIT: Oh, and it writes that timer because that's how it's supposed to do the math to know when to cool the HSW.

Does anybody have a consistent way of Ikana early without triple sword clip? I seem to only get it 1 in 10 times, and the only so-called guide I found did a crap job explaining the inputs.

reidenlightman wrote

Does anybody have a consistent way of Ikana early without triple sword clip? I seem to only get it 1 in 10 times, and the only so-called guide I found did a crap job explaining the inputs.

Nope, is either TSC for consistent method or be lucky to get the 1-framer trick first try =P

That trick is really just one that you need to aquire muscle memory for. It's best if you hit A just a little before landing and target at the apex of your pound. It's all about that timing.

reidenlightman wrote

Does anybody have a consistent way of Ikana early without triple sword clip? I seem to only get it 1 in 10 times, and the only so-called guide I found did a crap job explaining the inputs.

Go to the corner between right side of the rock and the wall, and target the rock (as human). Sidehop left, roll twice, sidehop right, roll, backfip (keep holding back or you won't make it up). It's not too bad to jump up without a setup, but I made one anyway. Fun fact: I checked my setup to post and went there during the day, apparently the real chus will knock you OOB at that corner.

Mashing A when Goron Link is going upwards works well with me, get it about 1 in 3 tries.

bobthegiraffemonkey wrote

Go to the corner between right side of the rock and the wall, and target the rock (as human). Sidehop left, roll twice, sidehop right, roll, backfip (keep holding back or you won't make it up). It's not too bad to jump up without a setup, but I made one anyway. Fun fact: I checked my setup to post and went there during the day, apparently the real chus will knock you OOB at that corner.

Thanks. It really works. Sure, it might only save me around 20 seconds, but that's a lot in speedrun time, every second counts, and it will be more consistent so I'll be losing fewer runs to this part.

Question

How much faster can any language be compared to any other? As far as I'm concerned, all text boxes can be instant by rapidly pressing b then a when the box appears. This only exception would be certain giants' text boxes where it intentionally appears character by character.

Recently transferred everything to my New 3DS JP Model. Micro SDHC I am using SanDisk Extreme Plus Class 10 micro SDHC 16GB 80MB/s. (I have no clue if going for 95mb/s read and 90mb/s write speed will do me any good). I am noticing a lot more slowdowns with the 3D on. It could be my micro sdhc from a bad batch. Formatted everything and still lag with 3D on. More noticeable in Gyorg's Boss room. Can anyone confirm this? Would going for a different micro sdhc make a difference? (Game is digital. I noticed this also on Pokemon X digital, just random lag spikes).

This slowdown is happening to a bunch of other people, notably in the pokemon games. It is happening to MM3D, probably because the game was developed with the c-stick in mind as opposed to the new hardware, so slowdowns with the new face tracking 3d is common, it is not from your micro sdhc.

Ack, wish I had seen this sooner. The "Ask Questions" tag on the top thread threw me off. Sorry about that, hate to be a bother.

How do you do Zora ledge clips? And also how do you skip the Ikana castle with one?

Ledge clips are done by grabbing a hanging on to a ledge and then targeting on the same frame. To skip Ikana Castle, you simply need to let go of the ledge that zora link clipped into and then press B to do a jump attack which will recoil zora link back really far. Once you hit the ground after a couple of seconds, Do like 2 sidehops to the right, walk forward 5 steps, and then keep sidehopping until you reach the loading zone. If you get lost you can reference the castle which is above link to guide you to where you need to go.

I just submitted my best time, and the first run I recorded (and completed). Was wondering if there's a typical amount of time I should wait before expecting it to be verified (if it can be). I'm pretty sure it's verifiable since the 3DS and timer are on camera 99% of the time.

Also, how much time could French save over English? I mean, all the text can be made instant save for a few Giants text boxes. But those seem to all be rigged to take the same amount of time.

When it comes to Action Swap, I only ever see it used for 'fire arrows'. Are there any other items that could be ASed? What would be the determining factors?

You can do deku spear (infinitely long deku stick), store a ground jump, something weird with playing sounds which crashes the game I think, and I think that's pretty much it.

reidenlightman wrote

Also, how much time could French save over English? I mean, all the text can be made instant save for a few Giants text boxes. But those seem to all be rigged to take the same amount of time.

It's a bit more complicated, some languages do this differently by using more than one letter for example. I timed the 4th Giant text a while ago which is where this whole damn language switching thing started... No one has bothered to test this further yet, but it should probably be done soon.

If you're interested about the 4th Giant timings I did, the order from slowest to fastest was:

Spanish (1:23)
English (1:20)
French (1:13)
German and Italian (1:11) (These are PAL exclusive languages and 99% of the runners are from US...)
Japanese (1:09)

Iirc I timed it from the remains grab to landing to ikana after the giants cs.

Despite English being slower, I still use it over Italian and German, just to not gain unfair advantage over others due to me living in Europe. Of course Japanese don't have this option, but you can just add or remove ~15 seconds to roughly convert times between them. It's a pain in the ass to swap languages on the 3DS and you get Spotpass news everytime you do that... Of course there are still those people who call it "free time save" just so they can get WR easier for giving themselves 10 secs more room for mistakes -_- (Essentially getting WR with poorer execution)

Please feel free to use whatever language you choose and ignore Toast's whining. All languages are official versions of the game and banning specific languages would be the silliest thing I've ever heard. If you have a fast version, please feel free to use it. Perhaps spotpass notification are annoying, but what wold be really annoying is having to convert times and say your run is faster than it really is. Using a slow version on purpose is your choice, but you will get no sympathy or agreement from me.

I'm finalising the low% route and I have 2 questions: can you use fire/light arrows wothout the quiver, and does losing your sword or shield count towards reducing the number of items in low%?

I don't know about low% rules and stuff, but i do know that using special arrows without quiver won't do anything, cuz you don't have a quiver lol, you won't have any arrows or buy/get any arrow drop :P

Is there a known way to overcome/override the "your notes echoed far..." message you'll get in certain places when playing certain songs? SoSing from places where you shouldn't could be a boon to me.

weckar wrote

Is there a known way to overcome/override the "your notes echoed far..." message you'll get in certain places when playing certain songs? SoSing from places where you shouldn't could be a boon to me.

Where would this be relevant? I could only think of a few places this would matter. Milk Bar, Fishing hole (you wouldn't be here during a speedrun), certain buildings, Igos Du Ikana's throne room. It only takes around 10 seconds to get out of there. I doubt any sort of trick like this will be searched for much less actually used. Currently, there are no places in any route that we need to soar from that we can't soar in. We can even soar from inside bomb shop and inside the Ikana circus house.

Top of clock tower comes to mind. I'm not sure what the effect would be; but knowing my RAM that timer is going to set SOMETHING off if it ends on a different map.

How do you do epona clip into milk bar? I CAN CLIP BUT CANT GET LINK TO TURN TOWARD LOADING ZONE. I tried holding forward and nothing.

This is the only trick I cant do in this game. Frustrating!

You need to target in the direction you want link to turn before doing the trick and hold target the whole time, so when he gets off epona he turns around to keep targetting in that direction

gamestabled wrote

You need to target in the direction you want link to turn before doing the trick and hold target the whole time, so when he gets off epona he turns around to keep targetting in that direction

I cant beleive so simple... got it thanks.

Regarding the Any% route, can someone explain to me the "Second Circle Pad Pro Route Diversion" aspect of it? I assume it's faster because of the different milk bar clip so I guess I'm asking how does using the circle pad pro change the way it's performed and why can't it be done without it. And any other tricks where it might be helpful/different.
I apologize if I missed a link where it's already explained  :-\

Thanks in advance!