Ocarina of Time Japanese Version Discoveries

EDIT: Apparently there are 3 versions of Japanese OoT just like North American's version. They call the last 2 versions "Revision A" and "Revision B" which are the same as 1.1 and 1.2.

I was curious as to which version OoT NTSC-J is (there's 3 Japanese versions, just like ours), so i played the "non-revised" version and it turns out that it is exactly the same as NTSC v1.0 aside from the N64 startup logo being the "non-shiny" version.

"The rod steal off of the rock", Islamic Fire Temple music, crescent moon symbols, and Red Blood all are there.

The text is also considerably faster than the North American versions, the text characters are very large and very few.

that's good to know.

i'll test the japanese language version of the OoT/MQ GC disc to see if it is identical just in case because it could be an easier way to obtain the JP version for us (just load the jp version with AR from your current disc)
now that i look back, i didn't reach any of the areas with edited stuff when i played it earlier....

edit: tough luck. the jp language version has the same stuff as the eng language version.

someone should get a real jp bonus disc or jp VC download to see if they're really v1.0 or v1.2
the reason there's only v1.0 on n64 in japan could be that the first print was the only one over there, unlike other areas.

The text speed difference is ABSOLUTELY INSANE between English and Japanese:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atCLqVMsAxc

Runnerguy2489 wrote

Maxx wrote

IMO there's nothing wrong with using it, but it'd be pretty gay if you beat someone JUST by using a different language.

This, and it's why I'll continue on the US V1.0.

Sums up my thoughts on Japanese version.

Also:

aleckermit wrote

The difference is a massive 1 minute 4 seconds out of less than 3 minutes 30 seconds of gameplay cutscenes.

Big difference.

I'm not asking you to run out and get the Japanese version, trust me Runnerguy ;P. But I believe it should have it's own category at least, a Japanese TAS of OoT would be interesting because you could see the lowest possible time that OoT can be beat in. Japanese non-TAS seems a bit pointless unless categorized seperately or if only gameplay counted towards total time.

I've been hunting for a Zelda Ocarina of Time JPN VC. None are dumped/released as of now.

Do the Japanese have their own speedrunning site or anything?

If it's faster than the other versions, than wouldn't it be, unfair, for the people that use other versions in speedruns and impromptus? I vote for it's own category.

The agreement among all speedrunning communities I know of is to just ignore the gains from the Japanese version in cutscenes, and look at the time of the actual run itself. If this means accepting a 59:48 english run over a 57:12 japanese run, so be it.

I personally think it'd make more sense to just make it a separate category. accepting a 59:48 english run over a 57:12 japanese run or whatever just seems weird to me.

Quick, someone go find an actual gameplay difference between the English and Japanese versions so SDA has to make it a separate category :P

Alright so, people are pushing me to do this so apparently this is the thing to do now and SDA would take the final time of the Japanese version. It's going to be like near 55 or something crazy like that. The main point is, it's sub 1 and it's as fast as it could possibly be. But I'm not going to go out and find this thing and buy it. So Maxx, if you really do want to ship me your version out, I'll do the run and ship it back (don't expect it back for a while though, lol). Or if someone wants to find one somehow, buy it and send it to me like Jiano with the Wii, then I'll start a run on it.

Run is on hold at the moment too.

Runnerguy2489 wrote

Alright so, people are pushing me to do this so apparently this is the thing to do now and SDA would take the final time of the Japanese version. It's going to be like near 55 or something crazy like that. The main point is, it's sub 1 and it's as fast as it could possibly be. But I'm not going to go out and find this thing and buy it. So Maxx, if you really do want to ship me your version out, I'll do the run and ship it back (don't expect it back for a while though, lol). Or if someone wants to find one somehow, buy it and send it to me like Jiano with the Wii, then I'll start a run on it.

Run is on hold at the moment too.

Dude are you serious? Your run is going really well. You actually contacted SDA and they said that they'd take to Japanese total time? Surely they'd categorize it under Japanese version...

I am buying Japanese OoT tommorow just to have it, I could lend it to you for your run if I have to...


You're so far into your run... is a few minutes off of the time really worth it to you? Plus the text is unreadable to viewers. I was mainly pushing that the Japanese version should be TASed over English... not Non-Tas.


It's your decision though, I'll be glad to lend you the game.

PS: You have to open up your N64 and remove the dust guard in order for the game to fit.

not necessarily. he could instead open the cart and swap the backside with some cart he doesn't want and has lying around unused (if he has a useless game like that)

i did that when i imported some games since i had a few games i was never going to play again and it takes way more time to open the 64.

aleckermit wrote

Dude are you serious? Your run is going really well. You actually contacted SDA and they said that they'd take to Japanese total time? Surely they'd categorize it under Japanese version...

Unfortunately, even if we did a sub-1 run on the japanese version and someone else does better gameplay-wise on the english version but doesn't beat 1 hour, the world record will no longer be sub-1. That's why i think this ruling is guay, and that japanese version should be a separate category. Of course the best thing to do would be to find a route difference caused by shorter cutscenes, in which case it'd have to be a separate category.

I don't want it to be a separate category and have Manocheese's run still up on the site. If it's separate category there's really no reason to switch over.

Also, I'm still not set to switch since I've gotten quite a few opinions both ways now, and it seems to be a complicated issue for not just me as the runner but for a lot of people about how to go about it and the timing issues, etc. I may still try and continue my run or look right now to seeing what can be improved in the first 6 segments, since it's clear I'm going to have to squeeze seconds no matter what.

well, the SDA people will accept the run with better gameplay no matter which version is used.
i think there was a rule somewhere that even if a run was faster than an older one, if it was thanks to something that saved lots of time and the actual  gameplay is worse, it wouldn't replace the older run.

i'd say you should finish the run since you already have several segments up.

also, someone could time every cutscene seen in the run and substract the difference to get what you could have gotten if you played in the jp version. to me that would be similar to the NTSC-PAL time conversion that is done to see how much a PAL run would take in NTSC systems.

I think staying with the USA version is fine, but I understand how awful it would be to not break sub-1.  When I was considering a run, I definitely was going to use the JP version (mostly because it's my only 1.0 cart, but I also realized the text was faster).  It's kind of like using v1.0 rather than v1.1 (or more accurately, it's like VC MM vs. GCN MM).  They're pretty much the same, one is just a little faster.

I can still ship it to you if you need it, but just let us know what you decide.

Well, I just tested the japanese collector's edition on oot, and yes, it is indeed 1.2 :(

i highly doubt jp vc will be 1.0 but someone should test it anyway just to be sure.

In at least one Japanese version, when scaling Ganon's Tower the "Enemies are Near" song will play over Ganon's organ theme. This version could perhaps be the earliest version of OoT. I don't know which version however, because I was watching a TAS on Nicovideo.

Not really a Japanese specific version issue, but is it me or did they fix this animation issue in 1.2

I'm reviving this thread because of a new breakthrough by petrie911 that allows us to view the debug data straight from the game's memory. With this technique, you can figure out when the ROMs were created without ever having to own and crash the game yourself. I looked into all six Japanese versions, and came up with these dates:
J1.0: 98-10-21 04:56:31
J1.1: 98-10-26 10:58:45
J1.2: 98-11-12 18:17:03
JGC (version that came with MQ): 02-10-29 23:49:53
JMQ: 02-10-30 00:15:15
JGC (version that came with CE): 03-10-08 21:53:00

As you can see, the version that came with CE actually has a different build date than the one that came with MQ. There's no evidence of anything aesthetic or play-related being changed, but it still means it's a different version. I could also supply the build date of the Japanese VC if the ROM could be played on an emulator. I know the newer romc compression mangles ROMs and prevents them from being playable, which is why you can't extract an MM ROM from a WAD, but I don't know if OoT has the same problem. If someone knowledgable about Wii hacking can answer whether you can extract the ROM from an OoT ROM, then that would be great.

hm, something i'm wondering is if using the AR code to play the US version with japanese text is legal for speedrunning.

here's what you'd need to do each time you boot up/reset the game:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85kyQBfS-r0
(only the part where the AR comes in is necessary. the first part was just to show it is an US version and the savefiles)

for streaming purposes, the runner could stream the entire bootup sequence to make sure no additional codes are on.

i guess this could be useful for anyone who wants to have the JP version's advantages without actually buying an imported copy or a Wii.

I timed the Japanese text for MST. Here it is: http://www.mediafire.com/?j95s4t62wp02hlf
Some of my start and end points are weird, but I tried to explain it as best as I could. Just PM me if you have any questions.

So how much does japanese version save over US version then?

Just under 12 minutes; I finished timing the US version, and here are my results: http://www.mediafire.com/?oomg5g912gwc7m2

That means Cosmo's recent run is 3:01:40-ish on US

So it's 2860 seconds vs 3573 seconds = 713 seconds saved  = 11:53 saved in the japanese version in MST.

aleckermit wrote

EDIT: Apparently there are 3 versions of Japanese OoT just like North American's version. They call the last 2 versions "Revision A" and "Revision B" which are the same as 1.1 and 1.2.

I was curious as to which version OoT NTSC-J is (there's 3 Japanese versions, just like ours), so i played the "non-revised" version and it turns out that it is exactly the same as NTSC v1.0 aside from the N64 startup logo being the "non-shiny" version.

"The rod steal off of the rock", Islamic Fire Temple music, crescent moon symbols, and Red Blood all are there.

The text is also considerably faster than the North American versions, the text characters are very large and very few.

How do you distinguish which japanese cartridge is a revision and which isnt ? The imprint on the backlabel ?
Or does the serial number actually change from the normal NUS-CZLJ-JPN ?

There's no way to tell which japanese version you have until you actually play the cartridge.