Why are there no "glitchless" runs on ZSR?

I'm not suggesting that we should have them. Actually I want to see if we can come up with solid reasons so that I can write a post for the forums that everyone can link to whenever someone mentions "glitchless" run.

So yea, why do you feel that "glitchless" runs are hilariously stupid?

there not as much stupid, as well... a waste of time
EDIT: and as you brought up before this wasting time is pretty stupid

Inb4defineaglitch

ZFG wrote

Inb4defineaglitch

Couldn't ZSR define what is and isn't a glitch like Twin Galaxies does?

Hrm, I like Cosmo's comment about the seemingly unendless grey area in OoT, not 100% sure if it completely combat's my "Let's be Twin Galaxies" statement.

mzxrules wrote

Hrm, I like Cosmo's comment about the seemingly unendless grey area in OoT, not 100% sure if it completely combat's my "Let's be Twin Galaxies" statement.

...................................... the fuck

someone has hacked into mzxrules' account

mzxrules wrote

I'm not suggesting that we should have them. Actually I want to see if we can come up with solid reasons so that I can write a post for the forums that everyone can link to whenever someone mentions "glitchless" run.

Because there would be no true speedruns without glitches. The best best you could call a glitchless run is a playthrough.

It is literally impossible to define a glitch. Furthermore, it is impossible to play through a game without getting something that people would call a glitch.

Take Star Fox 64 for example. A lot of people bitched about the bonus point technique being exploited to get ridiculous scores that would be otherwise nowhere near possible, despite it taking more skill to use than to play normally. A few people decided to humor them and make "glitchless" score videos, and the conclusion was reached that this "glitch" to get extra points would actually happen BY ACCIDENT in these "glitchless" playthroughs.

The point is: A glitchless run is impossible. Testers will not catch everything, especially in older games, and the fact that people have different opinions on what is and isn't a glitch makes the term glitch literally impossible to define.

To me, a glitchless run is playing a game directly as the official strategy guide instructs (minus the unneeded items like extra hearts, upgrades, etc). And yes, it's easy to define an unneeded item in a strategy guide. That way, you never do anything that might not have been intended by the developers. Using that definition it's easy to define glitchless run.

That wouldn't be glitchless, that'd just be natural route. In order to be glitchless, you'd have to also decide whether supersliding, megaflipping, etc. is a glitch. And you'd also have to reset if you accidentally activate a random glitch, even if it's just a tiny little thing that changes nothing (i.e. accidentally falling oob)

ING-X wrote

And you'd also have to reset if you accidentally activate a random glitch, even if it's just a tiny little thing that changes nothing (i.e. accidentally falling oob)

In that case, its actually impossible to beat the game glitchless.  When you open sleepless waterfall as adult it "crushes" link because the game thinks its a child only cutscene, like what it dies when you get fairy ocarina as adult.

Maybe we can classify a glitch as anything we have in the OoT section (when its complete, of course) with a few exceptions here and there like basic fast strategies.

I see this discussion has turned from stating why glitchless runs shouldn't be accepted to attempting to define such a run. All I can say is that I hope you guys are setting yourselves up for failure to prove a point.

The point we're trying to make is that they are impossible to define. Everyone has different ideas of what such a run would be; it's an impossible gray area with no clear definition.

Well here's the thing about Twin Galaxies. While they love to ban all of the fun glitches, they also seem to try and "save" horribly "broken" games. What pops in to my mind is their Super Mario Bros. points catagory. The Koopa Shell trick alone makes this catagory hilariously broken.

Now while SDA-ZSR haven't exactly gone to this extreme, there are already a few games that have bans on certain glitches. The two zelda related ones are the Underworld Glitch of Link to the Past, and the Screen Warping Glitch of Link's Awakening. Why is it OK to ban these glitches, and not go further than that?

We don't ban those glitches on ZSR. On SDA, they are banned because they require hardware modification (brand new controllers can't do up/down, they need to be worn out first).

I'm pretty sure that the only banned zelda glitch on ZSR is CD-streaming.

Crooked cartridge is also banned where it applies.

RingRush begin_of_the_skype_highlighting     end_of_the_skype_highlighting wrote

We don't ban those glitches on ZSR. On SDA, they are banned because they require hardware modification (brand new controllers can't do up/down, they need to be worn out first).

So if a worn-out controller is considered hardware modification which is banned at SDA, then I'm pretty much fucked :3

A glitchless run is a run without glitches.

ZFG wrote

Inb4defineaglitch

A glitch is a short-lived fault in a system. It is often used to describe a transient fault that corrects itself, and is therefore difficult to troubleshoot. The term is particularly common in the computing and electronics industries, and in circuit bending, as well as among players of video games, although it is applied to all types of systems including human organizations and nature.
The term derives from the German glitschig, meaning 'slippery'
A glitchless run seems booring, though trick doesn´t count as glitches right?

EDIT: WTF!! YAY!! I finally understand te difference between glitch and bug, both are failures but the glitch is exploited to get a better position cuz it doesn´t damage the system (just as Miyamoto said, "It's a FEATURE", an unintended feature) and the bug does damege the system

Are people actually trying to define what is and isn't a glitch? It has been argued many, many times both here, in irc, on ustream, and on SDA, that glitchless runs have a lot of flaws and are not fit speedrun websites like this. Again, I won't go into the argument, because it has been done to death a million times in the past. Just use the search feature on SDA or check logs of #zelda if you really need to see sample arguments.

I understand the point of this topic was to create arguments, but I see too many people trying to create a definition for a glitchless run instead of fight against them, and it worries me. I thought the speedrunning community was beyond this. Mostly, I don't want to write five more essay-long posts on a topic that for the average SDA user is obvious.

Runnerguy2489 wrote

Here is the fastest no glitch route. The game responds to every single action from you the best and most logical way that it can. Therefore, there are no glitches.

I guess I could explain this a bit further, but there's really no point; Runnerguy ended this discussion months before it had even started.

a real glitch would be when the game crashes since it can't respond logically to something you're doing so it just goes "fuck this shit" and crashes.

because glitchess runs are dumb

"Why are there no "glitchless" runs on ZSR?"

Because they are slower.  It's really that simple.

UchihaSasuke wrote

a real glitch would be when the game crashes since it can't respond logically to something you're doing so it just goes "fuck this shit" and crashes.

NONONO dude, that is a bug, because the system gets damaged and you can´t continue the game, like when you map glitch and fall to a void, a real glitch is map glitch and jump into a void to get a loading zone, you take advantage off the failure.