Ocarina of Time [No-Glitch] Segmented Run

I was thinking about making this a side project of mine... I know there's been debate about "you can't define a glitch", but I strongly disagree. I'm interested to see how fast the game can be beaten without the use of glitches.

For example: ISG, megafliping, supersliding, ground jumping, gold scale as child, steal fishing rod, going OOB/clipping geometries for any gain, etc are obvious glitches.

Where as: Power crouch stabbing, cucco jump, skipping cutscenes/text/characters with jumps/evasion, skipping dungeons/items (such as lens of truth), gerudo bridge skip with hookshot, shield dropping, pressure jumping, are NOT glitches since they use the basic mechanics of the game.

An borderline glitch is talking to Shiek as a child, even though it's done without using glitches to get to that point, the cutscene causes link to bob up and down due to incorrect character height... a glitch. Any signs of strange irregularity with the game's cutscenes qualifies as a glitch.

I'll try to work with the route, anyone (RingRush? ;P) that wants to help out that would be awesome. Remember this is ajust a side project, probobly like a segment or 2 a week or less depending on the difficulty.

sounds to me like Sintendo64 got a hold of alec's password

Here's the rough draft route I've come up with so far:

Seg1
Save

Seg2
Rupee Route (sword, shield)
Get into DT
save

Seg3
Slingshot
Beat DT
save

Seg4
ZL
Save

Seg5
Cucco jump
Save in Fortress

Seg6
Cross wasteland, enter Spirit (skipping gate requires no clip or OOB, and I wont fall through wall to get onto other side).
Enter Spirit
Save

Seg7
Spirit (chus, gaunts)
save after Witch cutscene

Seg8
GC via LW
Enter DC
Save

Seg9
Bomb bag
Beat DC
Back into DC
Save

Seg10
Magic
Take owl to Kakariko
Cucco Bottle
save

Seg11
ZR
ZD
Scoop fish
Silver Scale
Ruto Bottle
Show to KZ
Enter JJB
Save

Seg12
Boomerang
Beat JJB
Save

Seg13
To Market
Play SoT at DoT
Save


Things skipped:
Multiple navi prompts & cutscenes
Saria Song
Goron Trail Gate
Goron Bracelet
Lens of Truth

wow, it's just like I'm really on TwinGalaxies!

Fine I won't do it... Jeez you guys are meanie heads.

"I'll try to work with the route, anyone (RingRush? ;P)"

No.

And your definition is really inconsistant. Are you saying anything that uses the games mechanics is not a glitch? Using your examples of what is banned, you could easily do shadow early if you drop early and use Din's Fire, since you never leave bounds or do anything more than a chu boost. But, the instant you sidehop down the corridor and briefly fall out of bounds, it is a glitch? The difference between the two is one sidehop, and yet one is banned and one is not.

Though, consider this. Rolling is a part of normal game mechanics. Shielding is a part of normal game mechanics. Picking up objects is a part of normal game mechanics. Doing the three consecutively is part of normal game mechanics. Doing the three consecutively with the right timing is suddenly supersliding, and according to you it is not part of the game mechanics. What makes the superslide any different than the sum of the three moves? The only thing that has changed is the effect, and according to your definition we don't care about the effect as long as it uses normal game mechanics (see: you allowed cucco jump).

Almost everything can be reduced to the sum of normal game mechanics in this way. Unless you can somehow RBA and change the way the physics engine works, you are using standard gameplay, just in unintended ways. In which case, Runnerguy2489 is already working on a segmented glitchless run, he has a target time of sub 1 hour.

If you really want to do this for fun, go ahead. But don't expect many people to care or support it, since your definition is too lenient for the casual audience (allowing cucco jump, shadow early, etc) and too flawed for the speedrunner audience.

I think a better definition would be "No techniques/Major Sequence Breaks" by using the zsr pages as a guideline (with the exception of shield drop and power crouch stab because those just seem dumb to ban).

I actually support this and it can be pretty interesting.  I watched dada's 4:17 no glitch run and it was pretty cool ( http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm10438767?user_nicorepo if you haven't seen it)

I think it's interesting that you allow power crouch stabbing, to me that is certainly a glitch. You say this uses the "basic mechanics of the game" which is already very vague but what do you consider basic? I don't think doing a MS jumpslash then crouch stabbing Ganon with a hammer is basic, nor is using a deku stick jumpslash then couch stabbing enemies. I'll only list one more then I'm done:

aleckermit wrote

Cross wasteland, enter Spirit (skipping gate requires no clip or OOB, and I wont fall through wall to get onto other side)

Standing on that mountain to gate skip is no more OoB than Shadow Early, or do you disagree? And why? This is the reason why I don't support runs like this.

Runnerguy2489 wrote

I think it's interesting that you allow power crouch stabbing, to me that is certainly a glitch. You say this uses the "basic mechanics of the game" which is already very vague but what do you consider basic? I don't think doing a MS jumpslash then crouch stabbing Ganon with a hammer is basic, nor is using a deku stick jumpslash then couch stabbing enemies. I'll only list one more then I'm done:
Standing on that mountain to gate skip is no more OoB than Shadow Early, or do you disagree? And why? This is the reason why I don't support runs like this.

Well clipping through walls/unloading areas are obvious glitches. Shadow Early (without DF at least) is glitching because it requires unloading the door. Also damage boosting with a chu and sword pull is a glitch that alters the damage knockback distance, so as far as I can tell Shadow Early is impossible glitchless. Skipping Gerudo Wasteland gate requires no OOB/clipping, just a simple sidehop onto the hill.

Power Crouch stabbing is not a glitch IMO, it's a technique that was programmed into the game for whatever reason, it's too obvious.

There are a couple things that I'm not sure of... for example skipping navi door text in DT with a sidehop...


Maybe the easiest way to do this run is to follow the Nintendo Power strategy quide to a tee, avoiding unnecessary items/dungeons. Official player's guides are the official source of what's intended or not intended. Also, just be as safe as possible and rule out things such as power crouch stabbing (I agree breaking a rock with a sword stab is a glitch, so power crouch stabbing itself must be a glitch of some kind).

Here's an official walkthrough made by Nintendo: http://www.zelda.com/ocarina/walkthru.html

aleckermit wrote

Well clipping through walls/unloading areas are obvious glitches. Shadow Early (without DF at least) is glitching because it requires unloading the door. Also damage boosting with a chu and sword pull is a glitch that alters the damage knockback distance, so as far as I can tell Shadow Early is impossible glitchless. Skipping Gerudo Wasteland gate requires no OOB/clipping, just a simple sidehop onto the hill.

Power Crouch stabbing is not a glitch IMO, it's a technique that was programmed into the game for whatever reason, it's too obvious.

There are a couple things that I'm not sure of... for example skipping navi door text in DT with a sidehop...


Maybe the easiest way to do this run is to follow the Nintendo Power strategy quide to a tee, avoiding unnecessary items/dungeons. Official player's guides are the official source of what's intended or not intended. Also, just be as safe as possible and rule out things such as power crouch stabbing (I agree breaking a rock with a sword stab is a glitch, so power crouch stabbing itself must be a glitch of some kind).

Here's an official walkthrough made by Nintendo: http://www.zelda.com/ocarina/walkthru.html

It's pretty clear to me that power crouch stabbing was unintentional. Crouch Stabbing doesn't write it's own damage values to memory, causing stale data to be read for the sword attack power. Plus, Power Crouch Stabbing still exists in MM J.

Pretty sure you can do shadow early with a bomb in between the ledge and the box by jumping and JSing over it at the right time.  Seems just as legit as cucco jump to me.

I kinda agree with the spirit of this run (things that "make sense" vs. things that you can't really explain), but it is pretty vague to define.  I doubt we could collectively agree on what to allow or ban, so it may be better to just come up with your own criteria and stick to that.

aleckermit wrote

Also damage boosting with a chu and sword pull is a glitch that alters the damage knockback distance, so as far as I can tell Shadow Early is impossible glitchless.

The reason you can make it to that ledge is because the explosion hitbox is not out immediately, giving Link enough time to jumpslash. Jumpslashing puts Link at a higher position. The explosion hits Link at the higher position which blasts him onto the ledge instead of barely missing.

u silly

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going OOB/clipping geometries for any gain, etc are obvious glitches.

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An borderline glitch is talking to Shiek as a child, even though it's done without using glitches to get to that point, the cutscene causes link to bob up and down due to incorrect character height... a glitch. Any signs of strange irregularity with the game's cutscenes qualifies as a glitch.

Don't you need to go OoB very briefly to get past the gate at the fortress anyways?

You mentioned in another thread that you wanted a sort of casual run through the game... Why not just do a MST, 100% keys run?

KlydeStorm wrote

Don't you need to go OoB very briefly to get past the gate at the fortress anyways?

I believe so.

Honestly, it's really impossible to objectively define a no-glitch category. If you want this type of thing, I would suggest a natural route run, which can be defined fairly painlessly - you must trigger all Navi prompts in order before completing the game. I think this might allow trials skip (not sure).