DK% routing

So, some guy who doesn't play OoT asked Moltov what he'd have to run to be his friend, and the reply was "DK%".  It's some super arbitrary category with the following retarded specs:

Goals:

• 1) Obtain Boomerang (it's like a banana)
• 2) Obtain Forest Minuet (because forest)
• 3) Kill Bongo Bongo (because Donkey Konga)
• Time stops when you step into the bongo portal.

Rules:

• 1) No RBA

Well, it's random and dumb enough that I'm going to run it.  :P
I've been routing it, but I don't have enough general experience to know what sub-route is faster, etc.  That's where you experts come in.

Here's my route so far:

Quote

START
sword
pause #1 (sword)
rupee route (40r)
buy shield (0r)
pause #2 (shield)
pokey escape
wess to kak
collect cuccos for bottle
pause #3 (bottle)
get bugs from under rock
pause #4 (savewarp)
buy deku shield
pause #5 (shield)
talk with mido
kill baba for deku stick (1s)
talk with deku tree
enter deku tree
kill baba for nuts (5n)
pause #6 (bottle, nuts, stick)
vine text skip
b1 skip (4n)
kill baba next to hole for nuts (9n)
2-3-1
gohma clip, kill gohma (7n)
ww to ganon's castle (6n)
pause #7 (savewarp)
enter spirit trial
get silver rupees (5n)
grab chus from chest (4n) (20c)
pause #8 (chus, nuts, stick)
exit ganon's castle
crawl through hole
avoid guards
talk with zelda
lullaby cs skip (19c)
at game over, save and quit
lost woods
chuslide to skip owl text (18c)
aquascape
chuhop into zd (17c)
king zora skip (16c)
jabu fish skip
first room (15c)
get boomerang (2n)
pause #9 (savewarp)
exit kokiri through front
head to hyrule marketplace [what is day/night cycle here?]
DoT skip
pause #10 (savewarp)
[ROUTE NEEDS MOST WORK STARTING HERE]
head to kak, then graveyard
get hylian shield from grave
do dampe race for hookshot
pause #11 (hylian shield, chus, hookshot, ocarina)
head to lost woods:
a) via death mountain, then goron city warp (14c)
b) savewarp, walk to kokiri
mido skip [this is why we need the hookshot now]
to sacred forest meadow
ledge jump from water to do maze skip
use chu for minuet cs skip (15/14c) [youtu.be/E7-pM13heY8]
at game over, save and quit
head to kak, then graveyard
chuslide teleport onto seam (14/13c)
seamwalk to shadow temple
truth spinner
chuflip across gap (13/12c)
silver rupee room [optional weirdshot, costs 1c]
small key from chest
fence clip
jump onto wheel
play ZL on boat
into invisible wall maze
redead clip for boss key
back to huge gap
send chu to knock bridge down (12/11c)
to boss room [youtu.be/FypphVD17zQ] (11/10c)
kill bongo with isg
blue warp
DONE

**Maybe we can wait to get hookshot until the Shadow Temple. Can't we do Mido skip with a
chu?** That means we don't have shield, which means we need a shieldless setup for the Minuet
cs skip.

TODO: Would it be faster to get BotW chus, 99r to buy hylian shield, then walk to hyrule
market and get ZL normal way?
-----------------------------------------------------
pokey escape
wess to kak
cucco dive to botw
fill wallet from dead hand chest (99r)
botw chus
savewarp out of botw
out of kak to hyrule marketplace
avoid guards
chu damage boost to hole
------------------------------------------------------

Out of my uncertainty, I think BotW chus would save time, as would getting hookshot after Minuet.
However, we have to go to the graveyard anyway for the shield; we need either shield or hookshot for Mido skip, don't we?

Anyway, from the graveyard to the Lost Woods is my biggest uncertainty right now.

Input very much appreciated!

Why not deku to shadow ww?

Some quick observations:

Fishaman P wrote

...However, we have to go to the graveyard anyway for the shield; we need either shield or hookshot for Mido skip, don't we?

Nope, just backflip.

And you can skip the minuet cs just by walking into it as a chu explodes in your hand, you don't need a shield.
BotW and skipping bottle is definitely faster.
That being said, I believe you miscounted chus, which means you wouldn't have enough from BotW to go to the lost woods thru GC -- unless you got hover boots, which would be something you should time

PsyMarth wrote

Why not deku to shadow ww?

Off the top of my head, I'm pretty sure that would be a lot slower.

Jbop wrote

Nope, just backflip.

Well, that certainly helps.

Jbop wrote

And you can skip the minuet cs just by walking into it as a chu explodes in your hand, you don't need a shield.

Knew that was possible, just don't know of a setup.

Jbop wrote

BotW and skipping bottle is definitely faster.

Good to know.

Jbop wrote

That being said, I believe you miscounted chus, which means you wouldn't have enough from BotW to go to the lost woods thru GC

I originally made the route for BotW chus (back when I forgot about ZL), and I had enough chus then.
In fact, it's highly likely my route dump contains leftovers from that route, including chu counts.

Jbop wrote

-- unless you got hover boots, which would be something you should time

I thought about it, but I think it'd waste at least 2 minutes, given there are only 3 uses for the boots, and 2 are solved with chuflips.

And yeah, I think Deku to Shadow would be slower than even my current WW route.  For one, I'd have to get the Odd Mushroom.  Second, I need Hookshot for Bongo anyway, so if I'm in the area... Third, how would I get inside the Deku Tree as adult without the Hover Boots?

I'm just proposing bad ideas at this point, but can't you megaflip over the loading zone for deku? You could technically kill bongo with sword only as well.

PsyMarth wrote

I'm just proposing bad ideas at this point, but can't you megaflip over the loading zone for deku? You could technically kill bongo with sword only as well.

The 3 ways I know of getting into the Deku Tree as adult:

• Clipping and hoversliding through the side of the tree
• From the fence by the Lost Woods entrance, hoversliding onto the cliff, then jumping past the loading zone
• From the top of the strange tree house, hoverboosting onto the cliff

Unless there's another way.

Also, for actually getting through the Shadow Temple, we need the Hookshot.  Wrong Warping would bypass that, but again, would probably be way slower to get the trade items, etc.

You don't need the hoverboots to get into deku as adult you can just hover up instead of hoverboosting from the tree. If you haven't completed forest you can even do it without explosives.

r0bd0g wrote

You don't need the hoverboots to get into deku as adult you can just hover up instead of hoverboosting from the tree. If you haven't completed forest you can even do it without explosives.

Please, do tell.
Even though I think it'll still be slower.

I'm not saying it's faster, just that you can hover. Without explosives you hover off a deku baba or something, I've never done it :p.

technically a megajump, not a hoverboost.

...these names are silly

nathanisbored wrote

technically a megajump, not a hoverboost.

...these names are silly

If you say that a HESS is really a HISS, I will punch you through the internet.  ;)

Fishaman P wrote

If you say that a HESS is really a HISS, I will punch you through the internet.  ;)

lol no i hate that. also all the supersliding names are bad and misleading, so there's no point in even trying to distinguish them

I'm busy now and for the next few days.  When I'm free, I'll post the updated route, as well as any concerns about chu counts (which are apparently an issue).

All right, here's the updated route:

Quote

START
sword
pause #1 (sword)
rupee route (40r)
buy shield (0r)
pause #2 (shield)
pokey escape
wess to kak
cucco dive to botw
traditional botw chus (10c)
dead hand rupee chest (99r)
pause #3 (chus, savewarp)
exit botw
exit kak through front
head to hyrule market
buy hylian shield (19r)
head to hyrule castle
various shortcuts to trail end
chu damage boost onto ledge (9c)
zl cs skip (8c)
at game over, save and quit
head to lost woods
aquascape
chuhop into zd (7c)
get nuts from pot by shop (5n)
king zora skip (6c)
jabu fish skip
jabu main room (5c)
normal jabu up to boomerang (3n)
pause #5 (savewarp)
exit jabu
pause #6 (savewarp)
head to temple of time
dot skip
MASTER SWORD
pause #7 (hylian shield, savewarp)
head to lost woods through kokiri
mido skip
head to sacred forest meadow
ledge jump from water to do maze skip
minuet cs skip (4c)
at game over, save and quit
head to kak, then graveyard
dampe race for hookshot
pause #8 (chus, hookshot, ocarina)
chuslide teleport onto seam (3c)
seamwalk to shadow temple
truth spinner room (2c)
silver rupees
fence clip
wheel jump
play zl
redead clip for boss key
send chu over to knock bridge down (1c)
cross pre-boss room (0c)
kill bongo
DONE


Doesn't factor in:
Time of day
Miscounts :P

The main thing I'm worried about is chu counts.  As it is, there's no room for error.  If I miscounted a chu, we have a 1-chu buffer in the form of the Jabu main room hover to the switch.  Hover boots are an option if you're still short a chu or 2, but are probably slower to get by 2 mins.

Oh, and time of day too.  I'm thinking castle after BotW isn't gonna work without waiting.  I was gonna suggest doing castle after Jabu, but we need the shield for the chuhop into ZD and King Zora skip at the very least.  This is probably the biggest blocker if the chu counts are right.

I'm retarded.  We need the DEKU shield for those, not the HYLIAN shield.  What do you guys think about BotW -> Jabu -> ZL -> DoT skip?

Fishaman P wrote

Oh, and time of day too.  I'm thinking castle after BotW isn't gonna work without waiting.

...We need the DEKU shield for those, not the HYLIAN shield.  What do you guys think about BotW -> Jabu -> ZL -> DoT skip?

cb4n after BotW = cb4n after kak ;)
That being said it makes more sense to me to do BotW -> Jabu -> ZL -> DoT skip and buy the shield while you're in the market/castle (tho no one ever said I was a master at routing xD)

Jbop wrote

cb4n after BotW = cb4n after kak ;)
That being said it makes more sense to me to do BotW -> Jabu -> ZL -> DoT skip and buy the shield while you're in the market/castle (tho no one ever said I was a master at routing xD)

That seems best now.  I can only justify doing ZL before Jabu if you're going for the main room hover.
We still have to consider the day-night cycle in the courtyard though.  My gut tells me ZL after BotW would make this cycle perfect, and that Jabu first would mess it up.

Castle Before Night after Kak... My memory is telling me that ZFG used to do this all the time (and fail it all the time, lol), but my brain is telling me there's no way there would be enough daytime left to get there.

Fishaman P wrote

Castle Before Night after Kak... My memory is telling me that ZFG used to do this all the time (and fail it all the time, lol), but my brain is telling me there's no way there would be enough daytime left to get there.

Check out a No Wrong Warp run and you'll see what I mean

Jbop wrote

Check out a No Wrong Warp run and you'll see what I mean

Of course I knew what you meant, I was just reflecting on my knowledge of it.
If you can do Castle Before Night with the aquascape, then Pokey Escape should be no problem.

In my next free time, I will test the time of day for ZL.

All right.  I did a testrun up to the Shadow Temple boat, and it has given me some insights.

1) We have to do Jabu before ZL if we want to do the Lullaby CS Skip.  The only damage we can take without losing a great deal of time is from Golden Skulltulas, which deal damage in 1 heart increments.  Not good.  We would have to use 2 bombchus for the CS skip, but we can't spare that extra one.

2) If doing Jabu first, you have to wait ~60s in the field for the castle drawbridge to open up.  Undesirable, but I think doing ZL first would also have to wait before doing DoT skip.  We can partially use this time for getting down to 1/2 heart for the CS skip.

3) Yep, Mido Skip works with a simple backflip.  The angle is pretty precise, though, and I think Link has to be in one of two certain frames in his backwalk animation when he backflips.  Weird.

4) Text skip oddities in the SFM.  If you press A and B as the second textbox comes up, that box and the next are skipped.  If not, the text box isn't skippable at all.

5) That guard at the beginning of the maze.  I think it may be faster to be at 1 heart before the maze, and let him hit you into the water.  That way you won't have to wait too long for him to walk the other way, and you also don't have to worry about him killing you.

Someone post now so that I won't feel guilty for triple-posting for the final route.

I doubt you would have to wait before dot skip. The ZL CS sets time of day. If you really can't get a 1/2 heart damage anywhere you can probably just jump off the chains or something. But normally a chu damage boost is used to get to ZL... does this mean you're planning to wake Talon?

Also the text in SFM you can backflip over it.

There's nothing special about doing mido skip without hookshot; they're both just backflips.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_ekNJ9Rm_0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLSDZ0VhmLU

r0bd0g wrote

I doubt you would have to wait before dot skip. The ZL CS sets time of day. If you really can't get a 1/2 heart damage anywhere you can probably just jump off the chains or something. But normally a chu damage boost is used to get to ZL... does this mean you're planning to wake Talon?

Also the text in SFM you can backflip over it.

*facepalm*
I chu megaflipped in my testrun because my normal way of chu boosting didn't reach.  Now it's just down to the extra travel doing ZL first incurs, and whether it is slower than waiting for dawn.

Great to know about the SFM text.  Is is precise at all?  Is there a video of it?

Jbop wrote

There's nothing special about doing mido skip without hookshot; they're both just backflips.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_ekNJ9Rm_0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLSDZ0VhmLU

First-person mode is equivalent to the 2 frames.  Huh.
Guess I reinvented the wheel.

Smells like RingRush

I was gonna make a route comparison from BotW to ToT (minus parts that are the same, like the Jabu segment), but I can't decide whether to include Hyrule Castle.  You have to take a slower route during the day (or yolo it), and when to start counting time for it...  It hurts my brain.

Help me out here.

All right, I did the comparison.  I'll edit this post with a video later.

As tested, doing ZL first is 15 seconds faster than doing Jabu first.  However, in the Jabu First tests, going to Hyrule Castle was about 10 seconds slower using the "intended" route (because it was daytime).  If you yolo the Bridge Guard Skip during the day, the gap is shrunk to 5 seconds.  Also, instead of the short Cosmo Superswim, you can backwalk, saving 5 seconds for Jabu First.  That won't save time for ZL First because you have to wait for the morning to come anyway.

Additionally, in the ZL First route, you have to do the Boulder ESS Owl Skip in the Lost Woods, which is just dumb.  On top of that, when you Pokey Escape to head to the ToT, the gaurd guy is standing in a different pose, making the angle you stab at much more picky.  I had to C-Up the angle to get it consistently.

All in all, even if ZL is marginally faster (< 10 seconds), it introduces what I think is significant difficulty and room for error.  On the average run, Jabu First will be faster.

EDIT: Wow, this wasn't late at all.  Finally got the comparison video up.
EDIT2: And I should keep this leaderboards link for later.

Just took the WR with 1:05:13 on USA N64, and I can still save 10 minutes!

Thanks for all the help guys!

Fun thing to do, was like the only thing I could motivate myself for (i'm sick atm)

So, yeah, I finished a run, went pretty well except for Escape and Shadow block skip

http://www.twitch.tv/elorkeloff/c/3419745

What the heck.  People are running DK% now?  :o I'm honored...?

Sad thing is, I tweeted my run at Moltov and he never even responded.  I guess I'll never be his friend even though I went out of my way to learn this wack category in a game I didn't really play previously.  At least you guys had some fun with it.  I'll add your run to the leaderboards, elo.

I'm also happy to see Jbop (who gave me my first race win by forfeiting haha) and nathanisbored.  o.O

Here are some route which use the deku to shadow ww which I'm pretty sure are faster:

1.0/1.1 route (which is fastest) http://pastebin.com/fvPKqF4n
1.2 route http://pastebin.com/ZJYp0BY8

I think skipping lullaby, hookshot and most of shadow temple easily makes up for time lost doing the trade quest (especially since in the 1.0/1.1 route the trade quest is just egg -> eyeball frog)

#EDIT:

I just realised you don't have hover boots to using damage boost to enter deku is silly, it should be possible with angled backflip hovers though. Also there's no way of getting ground jump with chus in sacred meadows (I don't think) and I don't know if you can clear it without that and hookshot.

I talked a bit with Chain about the Deku WW route, and I'm pretty sure it's faster for v1.0 and v1.1.  It could be faster for v1.2 and VC, though I'm more on the fence about that.

As for the SFM, just do it the same way as in current runs: go to the water's edge, jump, grab the ledge.