Majora's Mask Any% SS/RTA

RTA Route: http://www.zeldaspeedruns.com/mm/routes/any-rta

ing... all you did was add in was an extra bomb drop and hess, keeta made this route entirely >_>

bluemarth wrote

ing... all you did was add in was an extra bomb drop and hess, keeta made this route entirely >_>

iknorite :3

I fixed the bomb route, we forgot that you can just get bomb drops before and after depositing eggs. I also edited some things to be more specific.

Good luck with this ing

you are either the good of bomb tricks or this is impossible xD

one question, why do you go to the swamp normally? I can't see any advantages

saves explosives and has Pirates Fortress right after Zora Mask

I'm not sure if it's actually faster but it seems theoretically so.

Kaztalek wrote

saves explosives and has Pirates Fortress right after Zora Mask

I'm not sure if it's actually faster but it seems theoretically so.

i actually thought about this today, not really sure if the time it takes to go through the path to the swamp makes up for the time gained by doing great bay in one visit. I think it probably does, though.

MrGrunz wrote

you are either the good of bomb tricks or this is impossible xD

Yo I'm almost as consistent with megaflips as I am with ISG what up. :P

I'm pretty comfortable with the old school stt bk skip (the one that has a vid on zsr), so I've added that to the route. I get it about as consistent as the one jiano uses and it's faster and saves more explosives.

Alright I've confirmed that going to swamp first is faster. If you wrong warp before woodfall you have to do an extra bomb shop trip before woodfall, which also complicates the shit out of the rupee route, definitely wasting far more time than taking the path to the swamp. I've also finished testing the route, and everything seems to work out fine as it's written.

hmm, I timed it back when I planned the TAS route and going to the swamp was way slower. I also can't see how doing great bay in one trip saves any time at all. there is no backtracking or anything if you don't do GB in one trip.

I believe you, though, if you timed it. other than that if there is a bomb route advantage it is quicker for sure.

good luck with the run btw ;)

Son, I am proud

Alright I've gotten rid of the 6 explosive GBT BK skip after determining that it is not only most likely slower (due to pretty much needing pause buffering), but is also way too hard for a single segment even with pause buffering. The height and angle needed is just way too precise.

EDIT: I just did some timing for keeta's new route, and this is what I found compared to my old route (which was basically the same thing as keeta's except it got adult's wallet and didn't delay zora mask):

skipping adult's wallet - 1:10 saved
path to swamp - 1:20 lost
deku bigocto skip - 0:40 lost
bombs after bottle dupe - 0:05 lost
2 extra bomb drops in gb - 0:10 lost
no sos to gb - 0:15 saved
less chus for gbt - 0:10 lost
no flying zora - 0:15 saved
extra bomb drops in snowhead - 0:20 lost
no ikana owl or swim to swamp - 0:45 saved
more chus in stt - 0:30 saved

TOTAL: 0:10 saved

Combine this with my old route, which had the following changes over jiano's 1:53 route:

hess in great bay - 0:05 saved
flying zora - 0:15 lost
hess through woods of mystery - 0:10 saved
zora hess to bigocto - 0:10 saved
no bomb shop trip before woodfall - 1:10 saved
megaflip to torch - 0:10 saved
megaflip bk skip - 0:05 lost
megahover into pf - 0:07 saved
no pause buffering in gbt - 0:15 saved
no bomb drops in snowhead temple - 0:20 saved
chu hovers to snowballs - 0:15 saved
megaflip gap to goht - 0:03 saved
hess to stone tower - 0:05 saved
no bomb shop trip before stt - 1:10 saved
5 less chus in stt - 0:20 lost
2 drops from nejirons - 0:20 lost (luck manipulation taken into account here)
old school stt bk skip - 0:15 saved
no pause buffering for bk skip - 0:30 saved

TOTAL: 3:45 saved

This means that the 2 routes combined save about 3:55 total. Take the turtle cs skip into account (which I timed to save 1:20) and we have an estimated 5:15 saved over jiano's 1:53. take about 3 minutes of N64 lag and loading times into account and that's still over 2 minutes saved over his run.

So my estimated time is around 1:51 for this run. goods hit.

EDIT EDIT EDIT EDIT: OK I'M A FUCKING MORON. I mistimed the path to swamp to be 1:20 when it was actually 1:30 (I must have used the game clock and forgot about the gossip stone time stop and the deku mask cutscene). So keeta's route is actually A COUPLE SECONDS SLOWER than my old one.

Keeta I am disappoint. T_T

Alright I'm kind of in a dilemma and I need some advice on what to do regarding the megahover up stone tower.

Megahovering up stone tower allows me to skip the bomb shop trip prior to entering the temple, which saves about a minute and 10 seconds. However, inside the temple I'll have to use 5 extra bombs and get 2 or 3 extra bomb drops from the nejirons, overall wasting about 40 seconds. This, combined with the fact that it doesn't even change the rupee route at all (skipping buying bombs after snowhead leaves me with 70R to buy steal chus with), means that the megahover up stone tower only saves about 30 seconds. Considering how late in the run it is and how hard it's going to be to get all those megaflips with the lag (which exists on every version of the game), I don't know if it's worth it.

Thoughts?

I think you should skip the megahovers. Way too much risk for too little reward, especially that late in the run.

dont do them, they are not reliable

lol sig, megahovers are fine, it's just doing that many of them in a row that's a huge problem. It's why I had to cut woodfall BK skip down to 3 megaflips instead of 7.

I would say skip them, only because megaflipping in Stone Tower is ultra-shitty.

I got a 1:53 today on N64, 15 seconds faster than Jiano's run. It was nearly perfect up to lullaby skip, but then I got fucked over by the wind and from there everything went downhill. I'm definitely going to redo, but if you're interested in watching it I have a ustream recording of it.

Alright I'm comfortable with megahovering up stone tower so it'll be in my run now. I edited the route to incorporate this by skipping the bomb shop trip BEFORE climbing stone tower (rather than the one after) which avoids silly nejiron luck manipulation altogether and is probably faster all on its own. I figured out that I'm MUCH more consistent at the megahovers if I wait for the smoke to clear after doing a megaflip (this dramatically lowers the amount of lag).

Jiano wrote

It's only a matter of time now.

Alright sorry for the triple post but this is pretty important.

As you all know I am extremely indecisive and can't decide whether to do this run on N64 or VC. VC has the obvious advantage of being 2-3 minutes faster due to less lag and faster loading, but I'm far more comfortable with N64 and play better on it. Furthermore, N64 has the advantage of HESS which will make the end product look much better.

Help? D:

ING-X wrote

Alright sorry for the triple post but this is pretty important.

As you all know I am extremely indecisive and can't decide whether to do this run on N64 or VC. VC has the obvious advantage of being 2-3 minutes faster due to less lag and faster loading, but I'm far more comfortable with N64 and play better on it. Furthermore, N64 has the advantage of HESS which will make the end product look much better.

Help? D:

IMO, speedrunning is also for entertainment, not just amazing time.
I'd sooner watch a run with cooler tricks than less lag.
Seriously, go N64.  ;)

I don't agree. If you want entertainment, go make a TAS. A Speed Run consist of the fastest acheivable way to beat a game. So you mean since RBA on OoT isn't entertaining, you would rather make a Non-RBA run ? Cmon, same thing for Sm64, no BLJs ? Less lag and faster loading times are factor to be taken seriously if you want to do a REAL speed run, aka beating the game as fast as possible. If, loading times + less lag saves more time than what could be saved with HESS'es, than go for VC imho, if you aim for beating the fastest real time speed run to date. If you aim for SHOW OFF, then go N64. Hope I got my point across lol.

Masterluigi wrote

I don't agree. If you want entertainment, go make a TAS. A Speed Run consist of the fastest acheivable way to beat a game. So you mean since RBA on OoT isn't entertaining, you would rather make a Non-RBA run ? Cmon, same thing for Sm64, no BLJs ? Less lag and faster loading times are factor to be taken seriously if you want to do a REAL speed run, aka beating the game as fast as possible. If, loading times + less lag saves more time than what could be saved with HESS'es, than go for VC imho, if you aim for beating the fastest real time speed run to date. If you aim for SHOW OFF, then go N64. Hope I got my point across lol.

I thought somebody would say something like that.
Saying this in a better way, non-TAS is for showing off skill - I'd be far more impressed with cooler tricks than a couple minutes less lag.
That's just me, though.

BottlesFTW wrote

I thought somebody would say something like that.
Saying this in a better way, non-TAS is for showing off skill - I'd be far more impressed with cooler tricks than a couple minutes less lag.
That's just me, though.

As I said, it all depends on what you aim for, showing off skill while loosing time or optimising your run with the best time you could pull off. Anyways, that's just me we all got our own point of views. So I would say ing : go with what you think fits the best for you in order to save time.

Masterluigi wrote

So you mean since RBA on OoT isn't entertaining, you would rather make a Non-RBA run ?

Yes, in a heartbeat. I would also rather watch a non-rba run as well.

Quote

Always remember that speed is the first and foremost priority; side issues such as entertainment are secondary. You can include a neat trick that costs a second or two, but be warned that verifiers will see this as a negative, not a positive.

A quote from SDA though, which I think sums up what you are trying to say. Although it's not really a quote to live and die by, as you don't see many speedrunners going out and getting the japanese versions of games to have quicker text. 

I would do it on the N64 if that is what you are most comfortable with. The run should be about you having fun (That is why we play games, right?) and not about pleasing other people on the internet.

Runnerguy2489 wrote

Yes, in a heartbeat. I would also rather watch a non-rba run as well.
A quote from SDA though, which I think sums up what you are trying to say. Although it's not really a quote to live and die by, as you don't see many speedrunners going out and getting the japanese versions of games to have quicker text. 

I would do it on the N64 if that is what you are most comfortable with. The run should be about you having fun (That is why we play games, right?) and not about pleasing other people on the internet.

I completly agree with you. By rather non-rba I meant that you would sacrifice your speedrun's time to give entertainment while a speedrun defines itself by beating x game in an optimized time. Of course you would watch it since it's more entertaining than a RBA run. But if you wanna Make one, considering the entertainment for viewers is like setting an own limit to yourself. And none plays on NTSC-J majora's mask because the time you would save by faster texts would be lost by all the bugs that slows you down. It's not like NTSC-J OoT, it's way more horrible control wise.

Then again, it depends on what you care about : time or entertainment for viewers. And if you actually play Majora's Mask, you should have fun no matter how you wanna do your speedrun.

Another thing to consider: I can easily beat jiano's 1:53 using N64 version even though he was on VC. Either way, SDA will accept an N64 run with better play quality over a VC one with worse play quality, even if the VC one is technically faster.

So I think I'll go with N64. I'm definitely gonna need a new controller before I can do that though, lol.

Moved megahovers up stone tower to before GBT so it isn't so late in the run.

EDIT: Turns out flying zora is unnecessary too. I edited the route again to take that out. This should make that beginning much easier (no more stupid bullshit that wastes 15+ seconds if you fail it gg).

Alright, my new N64 controller came in the mail yesterday, and it's amazing (I can actually run full speed without having to push as hard as I can on the stick). My only problem so far is that it's still sometimes kind of a pain in the ass to turn exactly 180 degrees (although it's much better than my old one) and HESS is a bit harder since I'm used to having a gigantic deadzone on my stick. Fortunately I'm starting to get used to it, so expect a finished run within the next week ;D

Sorry for the quadruple post.

I've eased up the route a bit, I think I made it a bit too hard for a single segment run to rely on (hence my constant resets). My route is now very similar to the WIP jiano wrote, with a few differences (mainly added HESSes). The main thing I had to cut out was the excess megaflips, which I've been failing a lot and have been actually LOSING time from rather than gaining time. I also cut the megahovers up stone tower (I can get it sometimes but I still fuck it up way too much to be reliable). There may be a few other differences from my old route but I don't think it's anything major.

I'm pretty sure a time of 1:52 or better (on N64) is submittable.

Sounds good. Keep at it Ing hope you get a good run soon.