Majora's Mask Any% SS/RTA

i could easily time all of these accurately, which you should like considering all of your other timing errors, but since you don't want me to..

Since the new route ended up being too hard for a SS run, I put the old 1:49 route back in the first post and converted the new route into a segmented route, adding the new 2 explosive GBT BK skip.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVFeWnWLGfU 1:55:57 RTA (JP) by sva. He could beat ing's run imo, he made a lot of mistakes this run and still got a very good RTA time.

osnap competition

New route:

Majora's Mask Any% SS Route
Written by ingx24

First Cycle:
-Intro
-Get 1R from bush on way to clock town
-Grandma's story twice
-Dance with scarecrow
-Get 1R from pot
-Deposit 2R
-99R from inn
-Escape ECT
-Enter NCT
-Get magic
-Deposit 99R
-Song of Time

Second Cycle:
-Get deku mask
-99R from ECT
-Get adult wallet
-Withdraw 200R(200R)
-Buy 20B and 20C(20B)(20C)(70R)
-PAUSE: Ocarina, Chus, Bombs
-Exit WCT
-Chu superslide to Great Bay fence(19B)(19C)
-Hover over fence(18B)(18C)
-HESS to water(17B)(18C)
-Hit owl
-Get zora mask
-Superslide to Zora Cape(16B)(18C)
-PAUSE: Zora Mask, Chus, Bombs
-Zora pots twice(200R)
-Hit Zora Cape owl
-Bomb drop from pot(20B)(18C)
-Flying Zora to fountain
-Blow up rocks(20B)(17C)
-Old school wrong warp with megaflips(17B)(8C)
-Superslide to Ikana owl(16B)(8C)
-Hit Ikana owl
-Get bomb drop(20B)(8C)
-Swim to swamp
-Refill hearts from grass
-HESS through woods of mystery(19B)(8C)
-Get bottle
-HESS as zora to bigocto(18B)(8C)
-To deku palace
-Zora clip past guards
-Chu hover to flower(18B)(7C)
-PAUSE: Zora Mask, Deku Mask, Ocarina
-Put on Zora Mask then Deku Mask
-Flower strats to monkey
-Learn Sonata of Awakening
-SoDT to night
-Zora jump from lilly pad
-Learn Song of Soaring
-Enter Woodfall
-Open Temple
-Sticks + Nuts from pots
-Enter Woodfall Temple
-Flower skip
-Enter second room
-PAUSE: Deku nuts, Deku sticks, bombs
-Hover + megaflip to platform(15B)
-Deku stick Lizalfos for bow
-PAUSE: Zora mask, bombchus, bombs
-Drop bomb in main room to kill moths(14B)
-Zora clip behind pillar
-Boss key skip with megaflips(5B)(0C)
-Odolwa(4B)(0C)
-PAUSE: Bow, bottle, Ocarina (equip during fight and use bow on Odolwa)
-SoS to Clock Town (should be between 10:30 and 11:00)
-Buy 10B 20C(14B)(20C)(90R)
-To Curiosity Shop
-Talk to manager for bottle duping
-Dupe over Deku sticks, Deku nuts, Deku mask(150R)
-Sell red potion(170R)
-SoS to Great Bay
-PAUSE: 2 empty bottles, zora mask
-Pinnacle Rock
-Get 3 eggs
-To observatory
-Deposit 2 eggs
-PAUSE: Zora mask, zora egg, empty bottle
-Deposit last egg
-Bombs and magic behind observatory(19B)
-To Pirate's Fortress(should be around/before 3am when you leave observatory)
-Swim to big switch
-PAUSE: Bow, Zora Mask, Bombs
-3 hovers + megaflip to fortress(15B)
-Enter fortress (should be before 5am)
-Skip cutscene with bow
-Get hookshot
-PAUSE: Zora Mask, Hookshot, Empty bottle
-Get first 3 eggs with angled jumps and whatnot
-PAUSE: Hookshot, chus, bombs
-Pirate fight skip(11B)(17C)
-Hookshot to last egg
-PAUSE: Zora mask, empty bottle, ocarina
-Get last egg
-SoS to Zora Cape
-Deposit first egg
-PAUSE: Zora Mask, 2 zora eggs
-Deposit 2 eggs
-PAUSE: Zora Mask, egg, ocarina
-Deposit last egg
-Jump down for NWBN
-Cutscene skip + SoS to Ikana
-PAUSE: Hookshot, chus, bombs
-Bomb drop from plant(16B)
-HESS to stone tower(15B)
-Climb Stone tower with megaflips(6B)(11C)
-Hit Stone Tower owl
-Bomb drop from pot(11B)
-SoS to Zora Cape
-PAUSE: Zora Mask, Hookshot, ocarina
-Open GBT
-Bombs/Magic from pot(16B)
-Enter GBT
-PAUSE: Zora Mask, Bombs, Chus
-Boss key skip from first room(14B)
-PAUSE: Bow, hookshot, zora mask
-Gyorg
-Bomb/magic from pots(19B)
-To Fairy Fountain
-PAUSE: Zora Mask, chus, bombs
-Wrong Warp with zora long jump(15B)(7C)
-ISG outside cave and HESS off bomb(14B)
-Hover to ramp(13B)(6C)
-To temple (chu last boulder)(5C)
-Block skip
-PAUSE: Zora mask, hookshot, bombs
-Bomb drops from basement(18B)
-Scarecrow song skip
-Long jumps to wizrobe(16B)
-Fire arrows
-Hookshot to 3rd floor
-PAUSE: Bombs, chus, fire arrows
-Hover to 4th floor(15B)(1C)
-To boss door(13B)(0C)
-BK skip(12B)
-PAUSE: Bow, ocarina, bombs
-Goht with arrows (should be around/before 5am upon killing goht)
-Forge razor sword(70R)
-SoDT to day
-Get razor sword
-SoS to clock town
-Buy 20C(12B)(20C)(0R)
-SoS to Stone Tower
-Bomb drop from pot(17B)(20C)
-PAUSE: Bottle, ocarina, bombs
-Time stop gap
-Enter STT and SoDT at first door
-PAUSE: Zora mask, chus, bombs
-Hover first sun block(16B)(15C)
-Key
-Second sun block(15B)(10C)
-Updraft room with recoil flips(13B)(10C)
-Light arrows
-PAUSE: Ocarina, chus, bombs
-SoS to entrance
-PAUSE: Light arrows, chus, bombs
-Invert tower(11B)(9C)
-Hover to left wing of ISTT(8B)(9C)
-Boss key skip(use as many bombs/chus as needed except one bomb)
-PAUSE: Fire arrows, ocarina, bombs
-Twinmold
-SoS to Clock Town
-Enter clock tower
-Oath to Order
-Superslide to Majora
-PAUSE: Arrows, Zora Mask, bombs
-Majora
-Done

Some notes:
-Zora pots is done twice in order to have enough rupees in the long run to get razor sword.
-Lullaby skip at night is not unfeasible if you're able to HESS consistently. The HESS bypasses the white boes fast enough that they generally won't get in your way. The reason for hovering to the ramp instead of climbing it and getting ISG again is to avoid targeting white boes after climbing up.
-Broken deku stick is NOT an option. Assuming my memory is correct, broken deku stick only saves about 10 seconds over just using kokiri sword in a console run. Razor sword saves 20. In addition, even if broken deku stick was faster, using it on Incarnation would be way too hard for a single segment run since you can't use the bow or quickspin.
-IF FOR ANY REASON PEOPLE WANT TO SEE MY TIMINGS FOR RAZOR SWORD, I WILL POST THEM IN THIS TOPIC. I AM NOT GOING TO HAVE PEOPLE CLAIMING THAT I'M PULLING NUMBERS OUT OF MY ASS.
-I also timed Zora Edge, but it's a tiny bit slower than razor sword because you need to get deku sticks from the shop and it can't be used to quickspin Incarnation. Again, if anyone wants to see my timings, I will post them here.
-Yes, this route HAS BEEN TESTED AND VERIFIED TO WORK AND STILL BE FASTER.
-It is technically about 15-20 seconds faster to skip adult wallet instead of getting razor sword, but doing so would require doing the entire section up to Odolwa without wasting a single explosive, which obviously isn't feasible in a SS.

I will update the page on ZSR with the new route.

I'm curious to see all of the timings.

also make sure to account for using a fairy for GBT boss key skip

Any bets on keeta and ing filling the page with an argument about the route?
;D ;D ;D

Just kidding guys, I have huge respect for you both. Please don't take my jokes the wrong way.

I look forward to seeing a run, ING-X! I wish you a 1:45 or better!

Also, will you be streaming any attempts?

I don't stream speed run attempts anymore; it's just too distracting and makes me really nervous.

? Where's the timings man

I looked over the timings again and realized I miscounted SoDTs, so razor sword actually saves only 7 seconds :( Broken deku stick would be faster than razor sword, but it makes Majora way too hard for it to be feasible.

id still like to see whatever timings youve done, they may be useful

Extra zora pots: (1 zora pots: 31:57 to 32:09 = 12 seconds) vs (2 zora pots: 31:47 to 32:13 = 26 seconds) = 14 seconds lost
Getting razor sword: (1:19:55 to 1:21:15 = 1 minute 20 seconds) MINUS (Playing SoDT the second time: 1:20:22 to 1:20:42 = 20 seconds) = 1 minute lost

If zora edge is gotten:
Getting deku sticks: (1:31:20 to 1:31:37) = 17 seconds lost
Garo master: -(4 extra hits: 1:32:17 to 1:32:43) = 26 seconds gained
Majora's Mask: -(1 extra hit: 1:50:04 to 1:50:17) = 13 seconds gained
Majora's Incarnation: -(Killing off masks: 1:50:38 to 1:51:15) = 37 seconds gained
Majora's Wrath: -(27 extra hits: 1:52:40 to 1:53:03) = 23 seconds gained
Total gain/loss: 8 seconds gained (take away a couple because of pauses to equip sticks)

If razor sword is gotten:
Garo master: -(3 extra hits: 1:32:24 to 1:32:43) = 19 seconds gained
Majora's Incarnation: -(Killing off masks: 1:50:38 to 1:51:15 = 37 seconds) PLUS -(Extra hits on Incarnation: 1:51:58 to 1:52:05 = 7 seconds) = 44 seconds gained (NOTE: This is also approximately the average time lost compared to Jiano's 2:03 fight between my bad 1:49 fight and Jiano's good 1:53 fight; Jiano's 2:03 fight is 0:30 long, his 1:53 fight is 0:57 long, and my 1:49 fight is 1:27 long. 27 seconds lost + 47 seconds lost = 84 seconds lost, divide by 2 and you get 42 seconds which is close enough to 44 that 44 can be used)
Majora's Wrath: -(20 extra hits: 1:52:45 to 1:53:03) = 18 seconds gained
Total gain/loss: 7 seconds gained

These timings are obviously not 100% accurate down to the frame, but for a console run they should be good enough. If anyone WHO ISN'T KEETA wants to look them over to see if I made a mistake, then go right ahead, I don't claim to be perfect or anything.

lol

To explain a bit about the incarnation fight:

The timing of 37 seconds for the masks is from my 1:49, as is the 7 seconds figure for the extra hits on incarnation (totaling 44 seconds lost on Incarnation from not having razor sword). However, Jiano's 2:03 fight with razor sword is 30 seconds long - almost a minute faster than my 1:49 fight (which was 1:27 long) because I had pretty much the worst possible luck the entire time. Jiano's fight in his 1:53 was 57 seconds long (not counting the pause to equip bow), only 27 seconds slower than his 2:03 fight with razor sword. Therefore: I lost 57 seconds over Jiano's razor sword fight, and Jiano's 1:53 fight lost 27 seconds. Taking the average of 27 and 57 gives you 42 seconds lost - approximately the same as the 44 second figure from before.

I will do 2 incarnation fights of my own from the same savestate, one with razor and one without, to hopefully time this more accurately. You have to understand that incarnation is damn near impossble to time accurately because of how random he is.

I redid incarnation - the best time I could get on him with razor sword was 30 seconds, and the best I could get with kokiri sword was 57 seconds. So it looks like the optimal difference between the two is 27 seconds, meaning that razor sword is optimally 10 seconds slower =[

EDIT: Either way, it's still faster to skip adult wallet than to get razor sword. I did some testing and realized that skipping adult wallet was easier than I thought, so I can add it to the route. Again, I apologize for the errors with the razor sword - it wasn't so much me timing incorrectly as it was me not realizing that the awful luck I got in my 1:49 on incarnation is far from typical <_<

I updated the route on ZSR, and will post it here as well:

Majora's Mask Any% SS Route
Written by ingx24
Updated as of May 9, 2012

First cycle:
- Intro
- Grandma's story twice
- Dance with scarecrow
- 99R from inn
- Escape ECT
- Enter NCT
- Get magic
- Deposit 99R
- Song of Time

Second cycle:
- Get deku mask
- Withdraw 99R(99R)
- Buy 20B and 10C(20B)(10C)(19R)
- PAUSE: Ocarina, Chus, Bombs
- Exit WCT
- ISG + superslide to Great Bay fence(19B)(10C)
- Hover over fence(18B)(9C)
- HESS to water(17B)(9C)
- Hit owl
- Get zora mask
- Superslide to Zora Cape(16B)(9C)
- PAUSE: Zora Mask, Chus, Bombs
- Zora pots(99R)
- Hit Zora Cape owl
- Bomb drop from pot(20B)(9C)
- Flying Zora to fountain
- Blow up rocks(19B)(9C)
- Zora long jump wrong warp with megaflips(13B)(7C)
- Superslide to Ikana owl(12B)(7C)
- Hit Ikana owl
- Get bomb drop(17B)(7C)
- Superslide to Ikana Castle(16B)(7C)
- Enter and exit
- Superslide back and get bomb drop(20B)(7C)
- Swim to swamp
- Refill hearts from grass
- HESS through woods of mystery(19B)(7C)
- Get bottle
- HESS as zora to bigocto(18B)(7C)
- To deku palace
- Zora clip past guards
- Bomb hover to flower(17B)(7C)
- PAUSE: Zora Mask, Deku Mask, Ocarina
- Put on Zora Mask then Deku Mask
- Flower strats to monkey
- Learn Sonata of Awakening
- SoDT to night
- Zora jump from lilly pad
- Learn Song of Soaring
- Enter Woodfall
- Open Temple
- Sticks + Nuts from pots
- Enter Woodfall Temple
- Flower skip
- Enter second room
- PAUSE: Deku nuts, Deku sticks, bombs
- Hover + megaflip to platform(14B)
- Deku stick Lizalfos for bow
- PAUSE: Zora mask, bombchus, bombs
- Drop bomb in main room to kill moths(13B)
- Zora clip behind pillar
- Boss key skip with megaflips(4B)(0C)
- Odolwa(3B)(0C)
- PAUSE: Bow, bottle, Ocarina (equip during fight and use bow on Odolwa)
- SoS to Clock Town (should be between 10:30 and 11:00)
- Buy 20C(3B)(20C)(19R)
- To Curiosity Shop
- Talk to manager for bottle duping
- Dupe over Deku sticks, Deku nuts, Deku mask(79R)
- Sell red potion(99R)
- SoS to Great Bay
- PAUSE: 2 empty bottles, zora mask
- Pinnacle Rock
- Get 3 eggs
- To observatory
- Bomb drop behind observatory(8B)(20C)
- Deposit 2 eggs
- PAUSE: Zora mask, zora egg, empty bottle
- Deposit last egg
- Bombs and magic behind observatory(13B)
- To Pirate's Fortress(should be around/before 3am when you leave observatory)
- Swim to big switch
- PAUSE: Bow, Zora Mask, Bombs
- 3 hovers + megaflip to fortress(9B)
- Enter fortress (should be before 5am)
- Skip cutscene with bow
- Get hookshot
- PAUSE: Zora Mask, Hookshot, Empty bottle
- Get first 3 eggs with angled jumps and whatnot
- PAUSE: Hookshot, chus, bombs
- Pirate fight skip(4B)(17C)
- Hookshot to last egg
- PAUSE: Zora mask, empty bottle, ocarina
- Get last egg
- SoS to Great Bay
- Bomb drop behind observatory(9B)(17C)
- Deposit first egg
- PAUSE: Zora Mask, 2 zora eggs
- Deposit 2 eggs
- PAUSE: Zora Mask, egg, ocarina
- Deposit last egg
- Jump down for NWBN
- Cutscene skip + SoS to Ikana
- PAUSE: Hookshot, chus, bombs
- Bomb drop from plant(14B)
- HESS to stone tower(13B)
- Damage self off keese to 3/4 heart
- Climb Stone tower with megaflips(4B)(11C)
- Hit Stone Tower owl
- Drop bomb and take damage if not at 1/2 heart or less(3B)(11C)
- Bomb drop from pot(8B)
- PAUSE: Zora Mask, Real Bottle, Ocarina
- SoS to Zora Cape
- Open GBT
- Bombs/Magic from pot + catch fairy in real bottle(13B)
- PAUSE: Zora Mask, Hookshot, Ocarina
- Enter GBT
- Play SoDT
- PAUSE: Zora Mask, Bombs, Chus
- Boss key skip from first room(11B)
- PAUSE: Bow, hookshot, zora mask
- Gyorg
- Bomb/magic from pots(16B)
- To Fairy Fountain
- PAUSE: Zora Mask, chus, bombs
- Old school wrong warp with megaflips(13B)(2C)
- ISG outside cave and HESS off bomb(12B)
- Get ISG on ramp(11B)
- To temple (chu last boulder)(1C)
- Block skip
- PAUSE: Zora mask, hookshot, bombs
- Bomb drops from basement(20B)
- Scarecrow song skip
- Long jumps to wizrobe(18B)
- Fire arrows
- Hookshot to 3rd floor
- PAUSE: Bombs, chus, fire arrows
- Hover to 4th floor(14B)(0C)
- To boss door(11B)(0C)
- BK skip(10B)
- PAUSE: Bow, ocarina, bombs
- Goht with arrows (should be around/before 5pm upon killing goht)
- SoS to clock town
- Buy 20C(10B)(20C)(0R)
- SoS to Stone Tower
- Bomb drop from pot(15B)(20C)
- PAUSE: Bottle, ocarina, bombs
- Time stop gap
- Enter STT and SoDT at first door
- PAUSE: Zora mask, chus, bombs
- Hover first sun block(14B)(15C)
- Key
- Second sun block(13B)(10C)
- Nejiron bomb drop(18B)(10C)
- Updraft room with recoil flips(16B)(10C)
- Light arrows
- PAUSE: Ocarina, chus, bombs
- SoS to entrance
- PAUSE: Light arrows, chus, bombs
- Invert tower(15B)(9C)
- Hover to left wing of ISTT(12B)(9C)
- Boss key skip(use as many bombs/chus as needed except one bomb)
- PAUSE: Fire arrows, ocarina, bombs
- Twinmold
- SoS to Clock Town
- Enter clock tower
- Oath to Order
- Superslide to Majora
- PAUSE: Arrows, Zora Mask, bombs
- Majora
- Done

ING-X wrote

Either way, it's still faster to skip adult wallet.

You realize of course that now I hate you even more right? -_-
And yes I know I'm doing seg'd and you're doing single segment, doesn't change my hate.

playe wrote

You realize of course that now I hate you even more right? -_-
And yes I know I'm doing seg'd and you're doing single segment, doesn't change my hate.

lolumad

Putting the new route in the first post. All further changes to the route will be made in the first post and on the ZSR page.

pretty sure ing doesnt want my help, but in case someone does want to look at woodfall bk skip with hookshot to optimize it a bit more, this should help
EDIT: even better
Original imageLoad image

the strategy is to angle change immediately after clip, then align hookshot to the right of the visible deku flower. Then it is just a straight line to the boss room (14 chu backflips).

Original imageLoad image

You can probably do one even better, but a straight line is surely faster and easier.

EDIT 2: here's a video http://youtu.be/FykHmc9prdI

New route. I tried to time this route versus the old one using mupen, but I ran into a lot of technical difficulties and it ended up being less accurate than just calculating out the differences anyway because of random variation. From what I can tell, the new route should be ABOUT 20 seconds faster than the route that I posted on ZSR a few days ago, and much easier. I'm pretty sure I've accounted for everything, but anything I may have missed should only make a few seconds' difference anyway.

If you're right, awesome job ing!

How much improvement is SVA's current WR over Ing's run excluding faster text? I do believe in this game as well time is saved by faster text considering the part talking and cutscenes take in any%:
And why doesn't SVA get spotted by the guards as he enters the hookshot room?

ArthurDent wrote

How much improvement is SVA's current WR over Ing's run excluding faster text? I do believe in this game as well time is saved by faster text considering the part talking and cutscenes take in any%:
And why doesn't SVA get spotted by the guards as he enters the hookshot room?

Japanese text: 1 character a frame
English: 2 characters a frame
Maybe like 20 seconds faster text over english

Japanese text saves 30 seconds. The other japanese version differences more or less cancel each other out.