Ocarina of time Any% Single Segment

I'm sorry, I didn't realize I'd just called you a cheater. That's definitely not what I meant.

I'm just very sad when I see Link die.

Fweep wrote

I'm sorry, I didn't realize I'd just called you a cheater. That's definitely not what I meant.

I'm just very sad when I see Link die.

Fweep, I'm not trying to be mean, but nobody cares whether you like seeing Link die or not.

It's faster and is done without going back to the title screen so it is "single segment" according to SDA rules. There is no point in making a no-death run of single segment, the difference in time would be about 30 seconds.

Runnerguy2489 wrote

First off, let me say that I had a mindset similar to yours for a long time, and hated runs that abused death. They looked ugly and I didn't like to see them.

However, this is a speedrun. Our goal is not entertainment value. Dropping bugs and catching them is way less entertaining than actually doing the Shadow and Spirit Temples. Our goal is the fastest run possible. Whatever it takes, outside of gameshark or hardware manipulation or stuff like that.

There are constraints. Other than that you don't use gamesharks or hardware manipulation, you also don't savewarp in this run. With savewarping, you'd be even faster, but still you don't do it. You still put constraints on what's acceptable and what isn't.

So where do you draw the line? Why isn't it a single segment run anymore if I savewarp but keep playing? Why is it still a single segment run if I deathwarp and keep playing? Because you didn't go to the title screen, and that's the rules, but the rules are more or less arbitrary. We've added the constraint that you can't go back to the title screen in single segment even if you keep playing. We could just as easily add the constraint that you can't die in single segment.

I'm not saying that we should. I'm saying it isn't true there are no constraints at all.

For me, a single segment run with a death warp in it that saves 30 seconds on a single segment no-death run, isn't necessarily a better run even if it's faster, although a run with a new sequence break in it is awesome and makes me go "whoa, amazing!"

there's a difference between dying because the game is very hard at some parts and dying intentionally to save time.

the former is the one that looks bad and wastes time while the latter doesn't look bad since it was actually planned to go like that and it is a time saver.
this is just something people are not used to because there's not many games where deaths help the runner gain time.

fweep's name is the sound king zora makes when he moves

Deathwarps will not be banned because they are extremely hard to define. Some games are really, really hard, and even the SDA-quality runs have an occasional death from a difficult part. Say when you die you get warped someplace else, and have to take an alternate route to your goal. Maybe your death saved time, maybe it did not. There is no way for a verifier to tell if it is an intentional warp or an accident. One example that springs to mind is a past LoZ:AoL speedrun that accidently fell into lava while starting to backtrack through a room and it warped him back to the room entrance. This ended up saving time, despite it being completely accidental.

I'm hot and tired right now, so this probably sounds like gibberish. But to summarize: 1] Some games are hard and thus you cannot ban dieing in speedruns; 2] If dieing is allowed, what constitutes a deathwarp and what does not is very hard to determine.

RingRush wrote

Deathwarps will not be banned because they are extremely hard to define. Some games are really, really hard, and even the SDA-quality runs have an occasional death from a difficult part. Say when you die you get warped someplace else, and have to take an alternate route to your goal. Maybe your death saved time, maybe it did not. There is no way for a verifier to tell if it is an intentional warp or an accident. One example that springs to mind is a past LoZ:AoL speedrun that accidently fell into lava while starting to backtrack through a room and it warped him back to the room entrance. This ended up saving time, despite it being completely accidental.

I'm hot and tired right now, so this probably sounds like gibberish. But to summarize: 1] Some games are hard and thus you cannot ban dieing in speedruns; 2] If dieing is allowed, what constitutes a deathwarp and what does not is very hard to determine.

Yeah, like in Shadows of the Empire where purposely dying near a spawn-point is faster than killing the enemies that might cause you to die throughout the level. Death abuse is legit.

Hey everyone on the internet: the progressive form of "die" is "dying", not "dieing".

I totally agree death warps shouldn't be banned. I just hope

1) Some runners think dying is ugly and therefore run without deaths

2) Those runners don't have to worry about their record being beaten if the only new timesavers in the other guy's run are additional deathwarps.

Fweep wrote

I totally agree death warps shouldn't be banned. I just hope

1) Some runners think dying is ugly and therefore run without deaths

2) Those runners don't have to worry about their record being beaten if the only new timesavers in the other guy's run are additional deathwarps.

If the run was done without deaths then it would be a separate category according to SDA rules. However, I doubt any serious Zelda runner would bother since the difference in time is so small, runners just go for the fastest time.