RBA discoveries

Cosmo wrote

but that isn't how BA works at all. item 18 is item 18, period. i suspect instead of fish having anything to do with nuts, it is linked to something else (perhaps directly to the hover boots)

That would be odd. I put bottled fish on II as young link, and had 18 deku nuts.
If you look earlier in the thread, you can see that someone else got exactly the same result.
I did this twice by the way.

ohh well, I'd rather find out how it actually works than just guessing.

Cosmo is right. If you got hover boots by Fish on II with 18 Deku Nuts, then the amount of Deku Nuts you had did not matter at all, since Hover Boots are not item 18.

Just adding support to the idea that deku nuts don't matter in BA. I had 10 deku nuts and fish on II and when i went forward in time i had hovers on B.

Some things have changed from the original game.
I just tried RBA with Lon Lon Milk (full) on II and caught a Fairy in my B bottle and it changed my Deku Stick count to 24. (Supposed to be Bomb count.)
I suppose I could investigate all of the II values.
When I had a Fairy on II it replaced my Deku Sticks with a bottle. (In the N64 version, it's supposed to change Deku Stick count.)
So, clearly some things have changed.

So far:

Fairy: Deku Stick slot
Lon Lon Milk (full): Deku Stick count

zora mask ba on 100% gives decimal 10. i HIGHLY SUSPECT this is bean popularity.
goron mask ba on 100% gives decimal 0. i HIGHLY SUSPECT this is bean amount.
the items around this area seemed to be offset by 2.

mask of truth & gerudo mask on 100% gives unknown decimal... nothing happens when pressed. im suspecting its giving me a very high value that used to crash console. i HIGHLY SUSPECT these are now tunics/boots and swords/shields.

items 20-55 are still "soft" aka they can be BA'd off of

items 0-50 are the same as oot

3, 6, and 9 still turn into sticks

ice arrows on II link to wt dungeon items
sold out is still ms

Could someone confirm that LACS BA doesn't work anymore?
I was going to use it for the next segment of my playthrough, but apperently it does not work.
I think I remember someone telling me that it worked, but apperently it doesnt.
I had beans on II as young link and had bottle on B as adult link, then triggered the LACS.
When I go back and forth in time I get LA on B, however, if I do it through the LACS, my B button just gets disabled.

if that is true, that is very unfortunate. i don't really have a convenient file to test it on

Ruto Bottle is Deku Nut count
Goron Mask is Magic Beans count.
Zora Mask is Magic Beans popularity.
Gerudo Mask is Swords and Shields (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6440063/OoT/IMGA0004.JPG)
Mask of Truth is Tunics (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6440063/OoT/IMGA0007.JPG)

Weird Egg - does nothing (?)
Cucco - does nothing (?)
Zeldas Letter - does nothing (?)
Keaton Mask - does nothing (?)
Skull Mask - does nothing (?)
Spooky Mask - does nothing (?)
Bunny Hood - does nothing (?)

(?) means that I could not see any difference in item count, no bottles were created, no songs were learned, and nothing on the equipment screen changed.

Magic Beans - Light Arrow
Hookshot - Ice Arrow

By duping a bottle over Light Arrow and Ice Arrow you're able to achieve a total of 6 bottles without having to dupe over one of your current items. This is because the Light/Ice/Fire arrow items isnt used in OoT3D. Instead they use the new sub-menu for choosing arrow.
This goes perfectly with the item screen as there normally is 2 empty slots if you have all items in the game. So with the 2 extra bottles you'll be able to max out the inventory.
You can not dupe over Fire arrow however, as it would require you have Fire Arrow (the item, not bow with Fire Arrow equipped).
In order to RBA over Ice Arrow you have to use Newgame Plus, starting with Bottle on B.

These slots also get the fire/ice/light arrow dots on them when you get the arrows in the game. These dots will get stuck on the slot where the item is located, even if you move the bottle. I can not confirm if moving the actual bow onto the slot, and then move it away will clear these dots.
If it doesnt, then the inventory may end up looking a bit messy with two slots that always have a blue yellow and red dot on it.

CloudMax wrote

By duping a bottle over Light Arrow and Ice Arrow you're able to achieve a total of 6 bottles without having to dupe over one of your current items. This is because the Light/Ice/Fire arrow items isnt used in OoT3D. Instead they use the new sub-menu for choosing arrow.
This goes perfectly with the item screen as there normally is 2 empty slots if you have all items in the game. So with the 2 extra bottles you'll be able to max out the inventory.

nifty stuff going on here

I have started working on the RBA page now.
http://zeldaspeedruns.com/oot3d/ba/reverse-bottle-adventure
I have personally tested everything except for Fire/Ice/Light arrow & Ocarinas. Simply because you can't get them onto your II button.
While testing I noticed that a thing or two mentioned in this thread were wrong.

Can someone confirm if Half Milk RBA still works the same way? I do not know how it works and just get confused while trying to understand what the page says.

hey guys, quick question

i understand how putting items on B works through RBA however do not understand acquiring the spirit and shadow medallions.

i gather you use the mushroom, but where does it go? how does the process differ compared to putting item on B? i understand the OoT n64 wiki page for this covers everything regarding how the data works but it does not explain to me how the process differs.

sorry if this is a n00b question, however this is the beginning of the deeper stuff for me because i've only ever played with things like bomb hovering, sliding, clipping etc. and not data manipulation. hope you don't discrimnate against people like me here :P because i'm hoping to get half-decent at this sort of stuff!

thanks!

WannaGoFast wrote

hey guys, quick question

i understand how putting items on B works through RBA however do not understand acquiring the spirit and shadow medallions.

i gather you use the mushroom, but where does it go? how does the process differ compared to putting item on B? i understand the OoT n64 wiki page for this covers everything regarding how the data works but it does not explain to me how the process differs.

sorry if this is a n00b question, however this is the beginning of the deeper stuff for me because i've only ever played with things like bomb hovering, sliding, clipping etc. and not data manipulation. hope you don't discrimnate against people like me here :P because i'm hoping to get half-decent at this sort of stuff!

thanks!

To keep it short and simple, do this:
Get bottle on B
Get mushroom on your II Button
Catch bugs in your B bottle

You will now have the medallions. :p

I have spent a few hours today working on an OoT3D RBA page (what you can do with it after obtaining a bottle on B)
I have covered getting swords, shields, tunics, and overwriting item slots so far.

I will add info regarding medallions, songs, equipment such as dive meter later.

oh, that's all? awesome, thanks a lot :)

CloudMax wrote

Ruto Bottle is Deku Nut count
Goron Mask is Magic Beans count.
Zora Mask is Magic Beans popularity.
Gerudo Mask is Swords and Shields (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6440063/OoT/IMGA0004.JPG)
Mask of Truth is Tunics (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6440063/OoT/IMGA0007.JPG)

Weird Egg - does nothing (?)
Cucco - does nothing (?)
Zeldas Letter - does nothing (?)
Keaton Mask - does nothing (?)
Skull Mask - does nothing (?)
Spooky Mask - does nothing (?)
Bunny Hood - does nothing (?)

(?) means that I could not see any difference in item count, no bottles were created, no songs were learned, and nothing on the equipment screen changed.

Magic Beans - Light Arrow
Hookshot - Ice Arrow

By duping a bottle over Light Arrow and Ice Arrow you're able to achieve a total of 6 bottles without having to dupe over one of your current items. This is because the Light/Ice/Fire arrow items isnt used in OoT3D. Instead they use the new sub-menu for choosing arrow.
This goes perfectly with the item screen as there normally is 2 empty slots if you have all items in the game. So with the 2 extra bottles you'll be able to max out the inventory.
You can not dupe over Fire arrow however, as it would require you have Fire Arrow (the item, not bow with Fire Arrow equipped).
In order to RBA over Ice Arrow you have to use Newgame Plus, starting with Bottle on B.

These slots also get the fire/ice/light arrow dots on them when you get the arrows in the game. These dots will get stuck on the slot where the item is located, even if you move the bottle. I can not confirm if moving the actual bow onto the slot, and then move it away will clear these dots.
If it doesnt, then the inventory may end up looking a bit messy with two slots that always have a blue yellow and red dot on it.

You think with this, we'll be able to find hidden tunics?

EDIT: Nevermind, that wouldn't make sense

CloudMax wrote

In order to RBA over Ice Arrow you have to use Newgame Plus, starting with Bottle on B.

Don't you mean Light Arrows?

CloudMax wrote

These slots also get the fire/ice/light arrow dots on them when you get the arrows in the game. These dots will get stuck on the slot where the item is located, even if you move the bottle. I can not confirm if moving the actual bow onto the slot, and then move it away will clear these dots.
If it doesnt, then the inventory may end up looking a bit messy with two slots that always have a blue yellow and red dot on it.

Unless I'm misunderstanding you, this didn't happen for me. Once I acquired the ice/light arrows normally, my duped bottles were changed into the unused ice/light arrow items.

corneliab wrote

Don't you mean Light Arrows?

Unless I'm misunderstanding you, this didn't happen for me. Once I acquired the ice/light arrows normally, my duped bottles were changed into the unused ice/light arrow items.

I meant Ice Arrow.
I first did RBA over Light Arrow / Ice Arrow (I can not remember which one), then after that I got the bow. It did not share slot with the bow, giving me an extra slot...

CloudMax wrote

I meant Ice Arrow.

That doesn't make sense, since Bottle on B as a child seems necessary to get the LIGHT arrows slot replaced (since magic beans must be on II), while you can just put the hookshot on II for the Ice Arrows slot if you play through normally.

CloudMax wrote

I first did RBA over Light Arrow / Ice Arrow (I can not remember which one), then after that I got the bow. It did not share slot with the bow, giving me an extra slot...

....I know? You already said that. Is there some kind of language barrier here? >_>

What I'm saying is that once I obtained the light/ice arrows AFTER duping their slots, my duped bottles were replaced by the unused elemental arrow items (the ones that can be freely equipped without being combined to the bow, and act like the bow+elemental arrow when used).

corneliab wrote

That doesn't make sense, since Bottle on B as a child seems necessary to get the LIGHT arrows slot replaced (since magic beans must be on II), while you can just put the hookshot on II for the Ice Arrows slot if you play through normally.

....I know? You already said that. Is there some kind of language barrier here? >_>

What I'm saying is that once I obtained the light/ice arrows AFTER duping their slots, my duped bottles were replaced by the unused elemental arrow items (the ones that can be freely equipped without being combined to the bow, and act like the bow+elemental arrow when used).

There is no language barrier, it was just that you said that the slot reverted into the normal item, so I assumed that you meant that the slot were just replaced with the bow, and that did not make sense to me.
Anyway, this is how you get light arrow without bow, it requires you to do newgame+ however, which is sad :(

Also, I was confused about the ice/light arrow thingy, I forgot which one did what.. I am the one who wrote the entire route for beans on II to get LA, no idea how I could mix that up..

Sorry D:

CloudMax wrote

There is no language barrier, it was just that you said that the slot reverted into the normal item

Except that I didn't say this, or anything close to it. I specifically said "my duped bottles were changed into the unused ice/light arrow items". You even quoted that statement.

corneliab wrote

Except that I didn't say this, or anything close to it. I specifically said "my duped bottles were changed into the unused ice/light arrow items". You even quoted that statement.

Cant we just leave it right here, please?
I was confused, and I have no idea why I managed to mix everything up, I had much stuff going, and I was working on the RBA pages while having the discussion with you, which could very well be a reason for me to mix things up.

Double Post..
Anyway, I have found a pattern in the differences in OoT3D and OoT64, I noticed it while working on the 3d BA page.
On n64 it cycled through the items up to blue potion (item 23).
HOWEVER, on 3ds, it goes up to 25. This is because they added in hover and iron boots into the mix.
This means that item 24 (bottle fairy) gives you iron boots when you BA. And that item 25 (bottled fish) gives you hover boots when you BA.
I also noticed another key thing, and it is very important.
All the "amount" items you had before have moved 2 steps down in the table.
Basically, Lon Lon milk (Full) (item 26) used to modify bomb count. But now on the 3ds version it modify the Deku Stick count instead. As you may know, item 24 (Bottled Fairy) used to do this.

So with all this information I can safely say that Cucco (the one you get before you visit zelda) SHOULD be linked to bombchu count.

This seems to be accurate for all items up until the adult link trade items.

They have NOT changed the values of the trade items, I tried them with BA.
So they must have changed the placement of the song/equipment menu (excluding swords, tunics and boots) items.

This was a pattern that I've more or less known about for some time now. But there's a little more to it.

In 64, you have item slots, and then you have ammo slots. But every item has their own ammo slot, which means that if the 3ds version follows the 64 version's save format, then the end of the Ammo slot should be 4 spots further down.

mzxrules wrote

This was a pattern that I've more or less known about for some time now. But there's a little more to it.

In 64, you have item slots, and then you have ammo slots. But every item has their own ammo slot, which means that if the 3ds version follows the 64 version's save format, then the end of the Ammo slot should be 4 spots further down.

I did not understand the last sentence, but whatever, aslong as I get the stuff to work the way I want it to :D

By the way.. Mibbit does not seem to let me connect to anything anymore.. And I have never got Mirc to work.. It does not let me connect to irc.speeddemosarchive.com port 6667. :S

CloudMax wrote

I did not understand the last sentence...

In 64 you have a block that holds all of the items that can be put on C, then you have another block just after that which is the same size that holds item counts. Since 3ds has 2 more C items, and should have 2 more C item slots (since rba confirms that the legacy arrow slots are still there, just unused), then the end of the ammo count block should be 4 slots (2 slots for boots, 2 for their ammo counts).

mzxrules wrote

In 64 you have a block that holds all of the items that can be put on C, then you have another block just after that which is the same size that holds item counts. Since 3ds has 2 more C items, and should have 2 more C item slots (since rba confirms that the legacy arrow slots are still there, just unused), then the end of the ammo count block should be 4 slots (2 slots for boots, 2 for their ammo counts).

Ahh, right, that makes sense, thanks for explaining.

---

Poacher's Saw is spiritual stones, song of storms, & song of time.

I think I have discovered the relationship for the left-side equipment and quest items. It turns out that the item values are the same, but the endianness of the equipment slots (and quite possibly the rest of the game) has changed. Looking through ammo counts, I think the same thing is happening there.

mzxrules wrote

I think I have discovered the relationship for the left-side equipment and quest items. It turns out that the item values are the same, but the endianness of the equipment slots (and quite possibly the rest of the game) has changed. Looking through ammo counts, I think the same thing is happening there.

I am currently working on a way to get sold out to II. I want quiver :P

How do you get sold out on II as adult?

Majora MIM wrote

How do you get sold out on II as adult?

We have not found a way so far.
I have tried multiple ways.
I even tried to RBA a bottle over the mask slot.
Equip the bottle on II.
FILL YOUR INVENTORY (it was to prevent the item from returning to the inventory)
Turn into young link.
Trade the mask to get sold out.
Turn into adult.

When the inventory was full, the game decided to swap slot with the bombs, so I had bombs on II instead of sold out.
I am interested in seeing what would happen if you do this and do not have bombs. Either nothing happens, or you magically get bombs on II, even though you do not have bombs.
It is not even worth testing though, it requires you to get everything in the game without the use of normal bombs (possible on MQ as far as I know)

I also tried to simply dupe over the mask as young link while having it equiped, so that I could trade in the mask after duping it (in hope of it not returning to the inventory), but you instantly unequip the mask when you dupe it, so that would not work either.

mzxrules wrote

I think I have discovered the relationship for the left-side equipment and quest items. It turns out that the item values are the same, but the endianness of the equipment slots (and quite possibly the rest of the game) has changed. Looking through ammo counts, I think the same thing is happening there.

Address	Stores What	N64	3DS
11A670	Something or other	SOLD OUT	Cojiro
11A671	Stick Nut Capacity	Pocket Egg	Pocket Cucco
11A672	Wallet/Dive Meter	Pocket Cucco	Pocket Egg
11A673	Bomb Bag Quiver	Cojiro	SOLD OUT
11A674	Heart Pieces	Odd Mushroom	Goron's Sword (broken)
11A675	Stones, few songs	Odd Potion	Poacher's Saw
11A676	Warp Songs	Poacher's Saw	Odd Potion
11A677	Medallions	Goron's Sword (broken)	Odd Mushroom
11A678	Great Deku Tree	Prescription	Claim Check
11A679	Dodongo's Cavern	Eye Ball Frog	Eye Drops
11A67A	Jabu-Jabu's Belly	Eye Drops	Eye Ball Frog
11A67B	Forest Temple	Claim Check	Prescription
11A67C	Fire Temple	Fairy Bow + Fire Arrow	Kokiri Sword
11A67D	Water Temple	Fairy Bow + Ice Arrow	Fairy Bow + Light Arrow
11A67E	Spirit Temple	Fairy Bow + Light Arrow	Fairy Bow + Ice Arrow
11A67F	Shadow Temple	Kokiri Sword	Fairy Bow + Fire Arrow
11A680	Bottom of the Well	Master Sword	Hylian Shield
11A681	Ice Cavern	Biggoron Sword	Deku Shield
11A682	Ganon's Castle	Deku Shield	Biggoron Sword

good theory, except ice arrow is still linked to water temple in 3ds.