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Twilight Princess

General Trick Discussion

Started by TSDA · 30 Aug 2009 · 278 replies

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Re: General Trick Discussion

#241
Sword and Shield Skip saves around 2:45 if done well. Skipping the Faron Twilight Bugs saves 2:50 initially, but loses 1:00 - 1:30 from having to do extra howls for ending blow that would be unnecessary in a route that completed the Twilight. Therefore S&S Skip + completing Faron Twilight will always be faster in a run where you have to return to Ordon later (No S+Q run).

Re: General Trick Discussion

#242
S&S skip saves 2:45? That does not sound right. Are you talking like, TAS-quality S&S skip? Also, are you factoring in the fact that S&S skip wastes 23 seconds going back to Ordon for sumo because of a different warp spot?

Re: General Trick Discussion

#243
ING-X wrote

S&S skip saves 2:45? That does not sound right. Are you talking like, TAS-quality S&S skip? Also, are you factoring in the fact that S&S skip wastes 23 seconds going back to Ordon for sumo because of a different warp spot?
It takes an extra 26 seconds to escape the forest the second time, call epona in Hyrule Field and ride to Lanayru gate over the other route, so having the Ordon Warp in this particular situation doesn't save any time. Sword and Shield Skip took me 1:10 from control in Ordon Spring to saying 'yes' to entering the twilight (this includes the midna text). I timed it against a perfect sword and shield quest (I got house jump and a first frame Midna jump to the Ordon Shield) which was 3:55. This skip was almost perfect, but even timed against a bad one it would still save something like 2:25 or 2:20. Even in that case, it's still at least 40 seconds slower to get the sword and shield.

EDIT: I'm silly, both routes would have to do the forest escape. :P I'll time the actual time lost from having to do the howling stone sequence + running over to the wolf.

Last edited 10 Feb 2013, 04:08 by Pheenoh.

Re: General Trick Discussion

#244
--No Sword and Shield Skip--
Faron Twilight: 3:55
Movement in Faron Twilight - Entering N. Faron: 2:39
Transform after purple mist - Entering N. Faron: 0:10
Enter Forest Temple: 0:31
Iza: 1:21
Ending Blow: 1:30

Net time: 10:06


--Sword and Shield Skip--
Faron Twilight: 1:10
Movement in Faron Twilight - Entering N. Faron: 4:04
Transform after purple mist - Entering N. Faron: 0:18
Enter Forest Temple: 2:53 (Ending Blow included)
Longer Backtrack to Bo: 0:23
Iza: 0:15

Net time: 9:03

Sword and Shield skip is 1:03 faster.

Re: General Trick Discussion

#245
Any% (No S+Q):
Bokoblins Dead: 5:55
Exit Ordon from Ranch: 0:15
Forest Temple First Room: 0:55
Forest Temple Ooccoo Room: 0:16
Boomerang - Hyrule field: 7:08
Enter Eldin Twilight: 00:53
Eldin Vessel: 2:10 [modified because i needed to change the starting time to wolf jumping in void]
Post Eldin Twilight - Lanayru Gate Clip: 5:16
Talk to Fyer: 00:28

--[Route Deviation after Lanayru Twilight]--
Say 'No' to Yeto: 4:35
Snowboarding: No change
Warp to Lake Hylia after Zora Armor: 13:45
Clawshot: 5:00
Say 'Yes' to Midna: 4:41
Midna's Desperate Hour: No change
Warp to Lake Hylia: 00:05
  --[End Route Deviation]--
      Net time: 28:06

Canon to Desert: 00:41
Stalfos Room: 00:52
Spinner Groove: 1:39
Clawshot Falling Pillar After Double Clawshots: 3:10
Water Zant Fight: 00:55
Hyrule Castle Savewarp: 00:34
Final Dinalfos: 00:30



Any% (No S+Q) w/ Zombie Hover:
Bokoblins Dead: 10:20 (+4:25)
Exit Ordon from Ranch: 0:15 (+4:25)
Forest Temple First Room: 0:37 (+4:07)
Forest Ooccoo Room: 0:38 (+4:29)
Boomerang - Hyrule Field: 2:08 (-0:31)
Enter Eldin Twilight: 00:53 (-0:31)
Eldin Vessel: 4:18 (+1:37)
Post Eldin Twilight - Lanayru Gate Clip: 5:42 (+2:03) [2nd forest escape]
Talk to Fyer: 00:28 (+2:03)


--[Route Deviation after Lanayru Twilight]--
Say 'No' to Yeto: 4:35
Snowboarding: No change
Warp to Kakariko after B&C: 6:39
Warp to ZD after SPR bomb chest: 3:45
Entering Morpheel Fight: 10:10
Say 'Yes' to Midna: 3:23
Midna's Desperate Hour: No change
Warp to Lake Hylia: 00:05
  --[End Route Deviation]--
      Net time: 28:37 (+2:27)

Canon to Desert: 00:44 (+2:30)
Stalfos Room: 00:46 (+2:24)
Spinner Groove: 1:39 (+2:24)
Clawshot Falling Pillar After Double Clawshots: 3:10 (+2:24)
Water Zant Fight: 1:08 (+2:37)
Hyrule Castle Savewarp: 00:34 (+2:37)
Final Dinalfos: 00:17 (+2:24)

Time lost: 2:24. The "new" route is much slower.

Last edited 10 Feb 2013, 18:23 by Pheenoh.

Re: General Trick Discussion

#248
Wait, are you trying to find a way to clawshot things through the wall? Because if so, I just did it, and I didn't fall to my death like the guy on twitch did...

EDIT: Okay I'm probably stupid and didn't realize that you guys were trying to find a way to skip the door. Is skipping the cutscene a possible way to skip the door?

Last edited 12 Feb 2013, 00:32 by Hornlitz.

Re: General Trick Discussion

#249
Hornlitz wrote

Wait, are you trying to find a way to clawshot things through the wall? Because if so, I just did it, and I didn't fall to my death like the guy on twitch did...

EDIT: Okay I'm probably stupid and didn't realize that you guys were trying to find a way to skip the door. Is skipping the cutscene a possible way to skip the door?
The cutscene trigger covers the entire room, extends out of bounds and triggers in mid air. Regardless, if you can figure out a way to skip it, that would work.

Re: General Trick Discussion

#250
Pheenoh wrote

The cutscene trigger covers the entire room, extends out of bounds and triggers in mid air. Regardless, if you can figure out a way to skip it, that would work.


I'm not sure about this, but I remember when I did the White Midna glitch and went into the desert a ton of the cutscene triggers (including the Poe one IIRC) were way smaller. I think someone said the desert ones were because it was night time, but I swear the Poe one was smaller too. Just putting that out there if anyone wants to mess with it. Probably not useful but meh.

Re: General Trick Discussion

#252
Razor7581 wrote

Could someone please explain how this clip is done and where by the door this is?


It's in the room with the 4 lanterns and the big metal gate. On the staircase up to the gate, there are 2 pillars, one on each side of you. You can roll into the corner between the walls by the gate and the pillar, (Do the one on the right to get the clip through) and then through to a tight spot by the railing. From here, put a bomb down, and then when the bomb is near exploding, aim your clawshot at the tile and release it. If you timed it right, The bomb should knock you out of the clawshot animation and you'll fall to your death. Don't aim your clawshot right away, because it will start pushing you out of the corner if you aim right away.

Re: General Trick Discussion

#253
Zombie Hover is 55 seconds faster than BiTE for any%. I'll post the timings here if anyone cares to see.

EDIT:

Old Any%:
Control - Bokoblins Dead: 3:55 (+0:00)
Ranch Exit - Ordon Exit: 00:54 (+0:00)
Movement in Faron Twilight - Entering N. Faron: 4:04 (+1:25)
Transform after purple mist - Entering N. Faron: 0:18 (+1:33)
Enter Forest Temple: 2:53 (Ending Blow included) (+3:55)
Boomerang - Hyrule Field: 1:36 (+3:55)
Enter Eldin Twilight: 00:53 (+3:55)
Eldin Vessel: 3:36 (+3:31)
Post Eldin Twilight - Lanayru Gate Clip: 1:47 (+3:31)
Talk to Fyer: 4:14 (+3:31)

--[Route Deviation after Lanayru Twilight]--
Savewarp after Clawshot: 8:13
'Yes' to Midna after Morpheel: 5:01
Midna's Desperate Hour: No change
'No' to Yeto: 4:03
Snowboarding: No change
Warp to Lake Hylia (from SPR start): 3:59
  --[End Route Deviation]--
      Net time: 21:16 (+0:55)

Canon to Desert: 00:44 (+0:55)
Stalfos Room: 00:46 (+0:55)
Spinner Groove: 1:08 (+0:55)
Clawshot Falling Pillar After Double Clawshots: 00:22 (+0:55)
Water Zant Fight: 1:08 (+0:55)
Hyrule Castle Savewarp: 00:30 (+0:55)
Final Dinalfos: 00:17 (+0:55)
















New any%
Control - Bokoblins Dead: 3:55
Ranch Exit - Ordon Exit: 00:54
Movement in Faron Twilight - Entering N. Faron: 2:39
Transform after purple mist - Entering N. Faron: 0:10
Enter Forest Temple: 0:31
Boomerang - Hyrule Field: 1:36
Enter Eldin Twilight: 00:53
Eldin Vessel: 4:00
Post Eldin Twilight - Lanayru Gate Clip: 1:47
Talk to Fyer: 4:14

--[Route Deviation after Lanayru Twilight]--
Savewarp after Clawshot: 9:19
'Yes' to Midna after Morpheel: 5:01
Midna's Desperate Hour: No change
'No' to Yeto: 5:33 (Ending Blow included)
Snowboarding: No change
Warp to Lake Hylia (from SPR start): 3:59
  --[End Route Deviation]--
      Net time: 23:52

Canon to Desert: 00:44
Stalfos Room: 00:46
Spinner Groove: 1:08
Clawshot Falling Pillar After Double Clawshots: 00:22
Water Zant Fight: 1:08
Hyrule Castle Savewarp: 00:30
Final Dinalfos: 00:17

Last edited 23 Feb 2013, 20:01 by Pheenoh.

Re: General Trick Discussion

#256
I got a gci but GCMM outputs my save file as gzlj instead of gzle even though I'm using the US version. I also tried the theories but none worked. The shadow wall just pushes you out of the way. You would need much more LJA speed to get past it.

Re: General Trick Discussion

#258
tdutchnick96 wrote

Allright, I was talking about a possible sequence break in the Palace of Twilight right? Well, I got some (maybe not) interesting results. In my run today, I saved a file at getting the first Sol out of the palace into the courtyard. Normally, when you take the Sol to the center palace, Midna stops you and you drop the Sol. Also, doing an LJA doesn't help because the trigger is quite big and Link can not cover the distance. So, nothing interesting here so far.

However, when using cheats (Moonjump and Inf. Health) I managed to get the Sol on the other side of the Midna trigger. What I did: take the Sol, throw it over the Twili person so that the Sol would roll against his legs. Then, I moonjumped over the trigger and pull the Sol back by using the Clawshot. Then, I took the Sol to the curtain of shadow crystals. It cleared but still there's an invisible wall by jumping normally.

Results:
- Normal jump: invisible wall, also as wolf.
- LJA (normal direction): invisible wall.
- LJA (to the right, as shown in the video under here): invisible wall.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTbCL8mJMFk

Nothing. Yet.

P.S. Has anyone got a .gci file at the beginning of the PoT? I would be really grateful if someone can test it with a "clean" PoT.
There is a massive invisible wall there. It's definitely not even close to possible. You need the butter sword anyway.

Re: General Trick Discussion

#259
I wonder if these circles were intended by the programmers. This would be similar to the cicular white stone slaps in the Temple of Time, the best spot to shot the crystal switches in the room with the movable walls.

Re: General Trick Discussion

#260
tdutchnick96 wrote

Almost a 1-cycle water Zant. I think it's impossibru though :-/

http://youtu.be/S44G53uLIoQ
I always thought Zant's HP in all fights besides the last one were based on the number of "end-of-combo" hits dealt to him, so I dunno if this would have worked even if you could have stabbed him ten times. I could be wrong though.

Re: General Trick Discussion

#262
Maybe he only does the triangle attack when there is enough space on the floor.

Re: General Trick Discussion

#265
The bomb bag obtained from Iza without clearing the rapids isn't permanent. It disappears when you save quit, and I think if you die as well.

Re: General Trick Discussion

#266
I've seen a few people messing around with lag reduction strats using a side view camera and decided to test some stuff myself.  On dolphin I went to the lanayru HF area where MDH starts, and in that area I usually get ~75% speed while I can usually play most areas of the game at full speed.  I tried running to castle town with the side view strats and it didn't really do anything, but I then tested with C down camera and the speed increased to ~79-81%.  I'm not 100% sure this means it's a good lag reduction strat or if it might just be emu issues, but it seems to help.  During a run yesterday I also tried it out in the desert out of curiosity and it definitely looked like the framerate picked up but I cant be sure.  Just something that should be considered/tested.

Edit: Did some console testing, C down cam didn't seem to help in hyrule field, but I also tested in the desert and it saved about 4.5 seconds from the start to where you ball and chain the tower.  Considering that's probably the laggiest place in the game it probably wont save much time in many other areas but should probably be tested more.

Last edited 04 Oct 2013, 03:52 by ZFG.

Re: General Trick Discussion

#269
How was this not found when map glitch was a new discovery and everyone still played Wii...? lol

Re: General Trick Discussion

#270
Pheenoh wrote

How was this not found when map glitch was a new discovery and everyone still played Wii...? lol


I only had the wii version for like a day, I didn't even know this was an option when I discovered Map Glitch for the wii.
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