Twilight Princess

General Trick Discussion

Started by TSDA · 30 Aug 2009 · 278 replies

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Re: General Trick Discussion

#211

Original image

It's a third of a second faster to go left through the arches here than to go around the right.

other assorted time savers, most of which are only worthwhile for tas/segmented:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFLS8XXSiAI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFBrjCf8vsM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFP7G5kkBcg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlsVGTH2DJI
Not on console it isn't, it lags really hard when you go under the arches. Sucks you couldn't find any big sb's in AG. :(

EDIT: I'm wrong and dumb

Last edited 07 Nov 2012, 00:43 by Pheenoh.

Re: General Trick Discussion

#212
Huh, that's interesting.

I came close to one in ag, but it wasn't possible. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=il1j7Uqp7h8 . Using some memory editing, i managed to make it across with a 74 speed jump attack. It's reaaally close, but definitely impossible.

An lja from the thing over the door on the other side of the entrance can reach, but obviously it's not possible to get up there.

Last edited 07 Jul 2012, 01:33 by ahou.

Re: General Trick Discussion

#213
One time I was in Southern Hyrule Field and it rained. I used sense as wolf and found some digging spots near a tree, but couldn't dig in them. Is this a graphical glitch and has it something to do with the rain?

Re: General Trick Discussion

#214

One time I was in Southern Hyrule Field and it rained. I used sense as wolf and found some digging spots near a tree, but couldn't dig in them. Is this a graphical glitch and has it something to do with the rain?
I don't think so, but it's possible. You sure you weren't just slightly off the spot? Or could you not do Wolf Link's digging action at all?

Re: General Trick Discussion

#215

I don't think so, but it's possible. You sure you weren't just slightly off the spot? Or could you not do Wolf Link's digging action at all?

I made a mistake, I meant I digged in the ground but the black spot didn't disappear.

Re: General Trick Discussion

#217
Interesting trick I guess.  I never thought of bombing the boulder like that before.

This might lead to more research on item duplication and possibly memory address manipulation if it could get link oob.  When you fall oob in the boat house area, I believe the game will dupe the item in your x to your y.  If you don't have anything equipped to x or something like that, I remember it giving me a black rupee, which supposedly has a hex value of 00.  I've tried using cheats to get two single clawshots, but unfortunately it doesn't work the same as the actual double clawshots item.

Most of this is just speculation of course.

Re: General Trick Discussion

#218
The Black Rupee is an item that was in development but scrapped later BTW. It is an anti-rupee that was later used for Skyward Sword instead.

Re: General Trick Discussion

#219
found in an old text document


Random info:

- Bo's "moveset" changes with movement from Link. His first phase includes a fourth "standstill" move, which allows for a quick grab.

- Mailman skip heading to Kakariko Gorge (Twilight) saves around ten seconds if you're already a wolf. Using epona, it saves around 2 seconds.

- Enter/Exiting Renado's House to fix Eldin Twilight (Post BiTE) is 2 seconds faster than exit/entering through the Kakariko front entrance.

- Wolf from to Auru's Tower is 1.5 - 2 seconds faster than Human. Swimming with Zora Armor is the fastest way to Fyer, followed by running there as wolf.

-Crawling to zora armor:

Crawl takes 111 frames
earliest you can start backing up is 31 frames in
if you back up the crawl takes 137 frames (26 frames slower or .86666... seconds)

- Back in Time via jump can be done when the D-Pad Item menu is brought up on the 6th visual frame of Link jumping into the air (Ordon Bridge).

- It takes 10 frames for the D-Pad menu to disappear (notice movement).

- 4 frames after the d-pad item menu starts to disappears, you can hit it again to bring it back up.

- Even with perfect d-pad buffering, a minimum of 2 visual frames will pass.

- Back in Time is, indeed, only one frame.

- Without D-Pad assistance, Back in Time has to be done 3 frames before you jump into the air (4th frame should be the start of the jump animation)(Ordon Bridge).
Clawshot aiming:

c-up quick aim = 12 frames
l-target quick aim = 17 frames
standard aim (clawshot in hands) = 26 frames
standard aim = 31 frames

^ This is until retina appearance, but the same frame window differences apply for noticable camera movement

most of this information is useless

Last edited 10 Nov 2012, 21:31 by Pheenoh.

Re: General Trick Discussion

#220
Differences between the three Any% Categories/Routes:

Any%:
Control - Bokoblins Dead: 3:55 (-2:00)
Ranch Exit - Ordon Exit: 00:54 (-1:21)
Boomerang - Hyrule Field: 1:36 (-6:53)
Enter Eldin Twilight: 00:53 (-6:53)
Map Screen - Eldin Vessel: 3:26 (-5:27)
Post Eldin Twilight - Lanayru Gate Clip: 1:47 (-8:56)
Talk to Fyer: 4:14 (-5:10)

--[Route Deviation after Lanayru Twilight]--
Savewarp after Clawshot: 8:13
'Yes' to Midna after Morpheel: 5:01
Midna's Desperate Hour: No change
'No' to Yeto: 4:03
Snowboarding: No change
Warp to Lake Hylia (from SPR start): 3:59
--[End Route Deviation]--
   Net time: 21:16 (-12:00)

Canon to Desert: 00:44 (-11:57)
Stalfos Room: 00:46 (-12:03)
Spinner Groove: 1:08 (-12:34)
Clawshot Falling Pillar After Double Clawshots: 00:22 (-15:22)
Water Zant Fight: 1:08 (-15:09)
Hyrule Castle Savewarp: 00:30 (-15:13)
Final Dinalfos: 00:17 (-15:26)

Time Saved over No S+Q: ~15:26





Any% Zora Armor:
Bokoblins Dead: 3:55 (-2:00)
Exit Ordon from Ranch: 00:54 (-1:21)
Boomerang - Hyrule Field: 6:36 (-1:53)
Enter Eldin Twilight: 00:48 (-1:58)
Eldin Vessel: 2:04 (-1:54)
Post Eldin Twilight - Lanayru Gate Clip: 1:18 (-5:52)
Talk to Fyer: 00:28 (-5:52)
Route Deivation: 28:06 (Same as No S+Q) (-5:52)
Canon to Desert: 00:41 (-5:52)
Stalfos Room: 00:52 (-5:52)
Spinner Groove: 1:08 (-6:23)
Clawshot Falling Pillar After Double Clawshots: 00:22 (-9:21)
Water Zant Fight: 00:55 (-9:21)
Hyrule Castle Savewarp: 00:30 (-9:25)
Final Dinalfos: 00:30 (-9:25)

Time Saved over No S+Q: ~9:25







Any% (No S+Q):
Bokoblins Dead: 5:55
Exit Ordon from Ranch: 0:15
Boomerang - Hyrule field: 7:08
Enter Eldin Twilight: 00:53
Eldin Vessel: 2:00
Post Eldin Twilight - Lanayru Gate Clip: 5:16
Talk to Fyer: 00:28

--[Route Deviation after Lanayru Twilight]--
Say 'No' to Yeto: 4:35
Snowboarding: No change
Warp to Lake Hylia after Zora Armor: 13:45
Clawshot: 5:00
Say 'Yes' to Midna: 4:41
Midna's Desperate Hour: No change
Warp to Lake Hylia: 00:05
--[End Route Deviation]--
   Net time: 28:06

Canon to Desert: 00:41
Stalfos Room: 00:52
Spinner Groove: 1:39
Clawshot Falling Pillar After Double Clawshots: 3:10
Water Zant Fight: 00:55
Hyrule Castle Savewarp: 00:34
Final Dinalfos: 00:30

Using a pseudo-segmented run I timed a few months ago, optimal times for each category using these differences are 3:17, 3:23 and 3:32 respectively.

Last edited 01 Dec 2012, 19:47 by Pheenoh.

Re: General Trick Discussion

#222
I will forever hate you for giving times relative to no sq.

And why didn't you time out the superior forest temple skip route for no sq?

Last edited 01 Dec 2012, 05:12 by ahou.

Re: General Trick Discussion

#223

I will forever hate you for giving times relative to no sq.

And why didn't you time out the superior forest temple skip route for no sq?
Because jumpslashing is hard

Re: General Trick Discussion

#224
Rog I will time your route if you can find a faster way to Kakariko early without BiTE. Because as of right now that route has way too many drawbacks to be close to faster (the difference between the two regular any% was ~6 minutes, and 3 minutes alone would be wasted just jumpslashing on that fence).

Re: General Trick Discussion

#225
Not to mention the zora armor skip route for no s+q would require getting the fishing rod which wastes another 3-4 minutes.

Re: General Trick Discussion

#226

Rog I will time your route if you can find a faster way to Kakariko early without BiTE. Because as of right now that route has way too many drawbacks to be close to faster (the difference between the two regular any% was ~6 minutes, and 3 minutes alone would be wasted just jumpslashing on that fence).
The zombie hover takes a while to do, but it would also allow you to do a faster route. The only reason we don't skip faron twilight is because of the time lost getting to lakebed an extra time to bite, so we'd save time on that.  It's not as bad as it seems.

If nothing else, it's at least useful for segmented no s+q.

Last edited 04 Dec 2012, 03:03 by ahou.

Re: General Trick Discussion

#227

The zombie hover takes a while to do, but it would also allow you to do a faster route. The only reason we don't skip faron twilight is because of the time lost getting to lakebed an extra time to bite, so we'd save time on that.  It's not as bad as it seems.

If nothing else, it's at least useful for segmented no s+q.
i'm not sure which is funnier, segmented itself or segmented no s+q

EDIT: Rog save 45 seconds on the zombie hover to spite me, I guess I'm gonna time this after all (assuming it's not too difficult for console).

Last edited 04 Dec 2012, 04:26 by Pheenoh.

Re: General Trick Discussion

#228

i'm not sure which is funnier, segmented itself or segmented no s+q

EDIT: Rog save 45 seconds on the zombie hover to spite me, I guess I'm gonna time this after all (assuming it's not too difficult for console).
What's wrong with segmented no s+q?

Also, make that 1:45.

Re: General Trick Discussion

#229

What's wrong with segmented no s+q?

Also, make that 1:45.
I only approve of fake categories when they're in single sitting. I'll time out this new no s+q route and run through the new TAS route this weekend if I'm not too busy.

Re: General Trick Discussion

#234
Well I assume this has been tested before, but just in case it hasn't I did BiT as wolf link and all it does is reset you back to the beginning of the game. Its like doing it at the beginning of the game. You have to go save Talo again and everything. So in other words, completely useless.

Re: General Trick Discussion

#235

Well I assume this has been tested before, but just in case it hasn't I did BiT as wolf link and all it does is reset you back to the beginning of the game. Its like doing it at the beginning of the game. You have to go save Talo again and everything. So in other words, completely useless.
Yeah, normal BiT always has that effect.

Re: General Trick Discussion

#236
Okay well messing around I came across another glitch, but it only crashes your game so I don't know if there is anything useful to it. After doing BiT and saving Talo you have to do goats. If you watch the cut scene into Ordon Village up until the second time you see Epona (She will still be there the first time, but she is in a loading zone so you can mount her) you can skip from there and Epona will still be there. You can ride around in Ordon village, but leaving either back to the ranch or going to links house will cause you to crash.

Once again I'm sorry if this has around been found.

Re: General Trick Discussion

#237
What exactly would the forest skip no s+q route be? From my estimation, this appears to be the route:

-Old school intro
-Get sword and shield
-EMS
-Forest Temple up to boomerang (get ooccoo)
-Ooccoo out of temple
-Warp to South Faron, escape
-Eldin twilight, kill messengers
-Warp to South Faron, escape again
-Special Olympics Fence Jump
-Eldin tears
-Tame epona
-Warp to Ordon for sumo
-Early Lanayru
-Lanayru tears (howl at howling stone in upper river)
-Climb snowpeak with map glitch
-Snowpeak Ooccoo
-Steal bomb bag
-Ball and chain
-Warp to Kakariko, call epona and catch 2 bomb fish
-Get 5 water bombs from Snowpeak
-Warp to ZD, get goron bomb bag
-Warp to LH and enter Lakebed
-Complete Lakebed
-the rest is normal except get ending blow on the way to Hyrule Castle

This... doesn't seem faster. Skipping faron twilight looks to be slower because you would have to get sword and shield, and forest skip looks to be slower because you would have to do ordon days 1+2 (which is the reason zora armor skip is slower in no s+q). Am I missing something?

Re: General Trick Discussion

#239
If you skip Faron Twilight, you need the Ordon spring warp to come back for sumo since you can't get past the twilight wall from the other side. The Ordon spring warp never gets activated if you don't get sword and shield.

Re: General Trick Discussion

#240

If you skip Faron Twilight, you need the Ordon spring warp to come back for sumo since you can't get past the twilight wall from the other side. The Ordon spring warp never gets activated if you don't get sword and shield.
Yeah, this plus having to do things like Ordon Day1/2, fishing out water bombs, etc. made me think it's slower. Maybe I'll sit down and time it one day when I'm bored.