Tricks/Glitches/Timesavers topic

I'll get to work.

That should theoretically work further north in that room. IIRC there's a stamina jar up there, so you could bomb the switch to activate the fan, and then bomb the skull to get the stamina potion to appear, then do the trick!

But would it even be worth it to beat HoG before EP if we could? We can't beat the game without merging, so we need to do EP at some point, and if we did ToH and HoG first, we'd have to rely on a stupid trick to get flippers without merging, and depending on luck, could destroy so many runs.

Regardless, wouldn't this be faster for the current route anyways if it works? It would skip a small key, right?

Of course this will never be faster, but for the sake of beating EP with master sword, we're trying our best to figure this thing out. If it all works out, cool. If not, no biggy.

Nice, Weegee had the same idea as I did last night, to hit the switch from below somehow. No luck there either.

Could rats be used in the same way as Armos enemies?
If so, you could possibly use your rod as the rat collides with you to get on the caged floor.

I tried doing that a while back, and I got nothing out of it. I think either the rat physics just don't work the same way, or maybe it was just me being lame at playing this game. Regardless, it would be extremely inconsistent, since the rats are always so random.

I should also probably note that this works on any solid object, so this could be useful in some other dungeons too!  :o You can partially clip through a bunch of different things with a Bombrod.

Can frozen enemies push switches?
Doesn't work on those electrical red enemies though.

I'm not sure, but I don't think it would matter as Bari's float around. Sadly, the only way that switch can be activated is by standing on it.

What do you mean by that camera thing? I tried it on both types of fans in the game. It didn't do anything with the vertical ones, and with the horizontal ones, it didn't seem like the camera affected anything.

I also tested out bombrodding through the metal grating and collecting the stamina potion to see if it would push me through, and well... You can collect things through the layer above you it seems, but it doesn't push you through :(

I used the Wind Rod, and got Bari's to hover over the switch, then used the ice rod...he was frozen in mid air.
There's also a bat up there, but I'd need someone to confirm that a reg frozen enemy could push a switch before I'd continue this theory.

KingOfHeart wrote

I used the Wind Rod, and got Bari's to hover over the switch, then used the ice rod...he was frozen in mid air.
There's also a bat up there, but I'd need someone to confirm that a reg frozen enemy could push a switch before I'd continue this theory.

I didn't think enemies would push down switches, but I tested it anyways. Sadly, frozen enemies don't push down switches either:

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Hornlitz wrote

What do you mean by that camera thing? I tried it on both types of fans in the game. It didn't do anything with the vertical ones, and with the horizontal ones, it didn't seem like the camera affected anything.

Huh, for some reason I couldn't get it to work again...I guess I was just getting really lucky lol. Disregard that camera post lol

You saying we got a random glitch?
Speed runners will hate this glitch if it has a purpose.

Hey all, I've been following this thread for a while and finally made an account after finding some stuff I thought might be worth sharing :)

I was getting particularly annoyed with the cutscene involved with getting the flippers so I thought I'd see if it were possible to get to the HoG without them (although this may never really be useful in a run, but whatever).

Anyway, you can use the Crow south of HoG to get Link onto the raised area of water with a simple damage boost (probably obvious):
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And from there you can hookshot the ladder on the dock, but unfortunately the dock is too high (I guess?) for Link to actually make it all the way across--he just falls in the water...
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Different angles don't really seem to help as far as I can tell, but I got creative and figured out a way across: apparently icebergs created with the ice rod can shift Link's position mid-hookshot to *somehow* allow him to make it onto the dock without falling off:
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This "Bergshot" really isn't even hard to pull off. A few different setups work, including diagonals. Here's a setup that makes only involves Link brushing up the side of one iceberg:
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The problem: this doesn't seem to work with the rented/normal hookshot. I guess it's too slow? I've tried every setup I can think of and can't get it to work, even trying to quickly drop multiple icebergs with the normal/rented ice rod to see if that somehow makes a difference. Maybe someone can figure out some way to make it work... I suppose it's worth noting that the crow used to damage boost into this area actually follows you a pretty good distance, and that mashing X/Y as Link falls into the water does actually let you use an item really quickly. I got the tornado rod to work for a split second here (not that anything came of it):

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Bonus: Icebergs can be used to activate animation storage (although I can't think of where this would be useful):
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One final thing: This might be obvious, but I couldn't find any mention of it in the thread... You can freeze this spinny thing to make the timing for the F1 ToH mergeless skip easier:
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What Kind of animation storage?
You mean Leaping?
Are you able to leap on land after being on land?

Wow man, really awesome finds!  ;D If Zora Flippers became skippable all together, that would be cool for low%! I think we'd always need to get them solely for Pegasus Boots in any%. But still, nice creative finds/ideas.

The iceberg animation storage thing is interesting....this could be potentially used somewhere. I also can't think of any specifics though.

It's a shame the Bergshot sounds like it can only be used with the Nice Hookshot. Maybe it can be figured out another way?

I also had no idea the Blade Traps could be frozen.  :o

Reg Hootshot looked possible.
Here's a desc of what I did.


I used the ice rod diagonal(north east). I then walked a little to the east, and aimed north.
Normally when I try to hookshot, it hits the ice block..however, the collision went past it, but I think Link nipped it as he went north.
I managed to hook onto the most west part of the dock(I was facing north).

I can't 100% confirm because I have flippers, but I did try it a few times & saw no swimming animation.

edit: I did it a second time to understand better.
Create a ice block.  Then aim north a little on the left side of the ice block & the left mode side of the dock.
Doing this will make you fly north, & be pushed a little to the left. Link will now be moving north and go past the dock. Once you reach the end of the hookshot, Link will go back right, and back onto the dock.

Will be making a video of this shortly ;)

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What Kind of animation storage?
You mean Leaping?
Are you able to leap on land after being on land?

Yeah, leaping. I'm not sure yet about leaping back on land. If you do it really fast (as in, before the iceberg starts to significantly melt), you seem to be able to do one action really quickly as if you were on land, but you fall into the water as you do it and it almost immediately cancels it out... haven't tested this extensively. Since the icebergs melt rapidly this trick can only really be used right next to the dock or where ever you're storing the animation.

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Wow man, really awesome finds!  Grin If Zora Flippers became skippable all together, that would be cool for low%! I think we'd always need to get them solely for Pegasus Boots in any%. But still, nice creative finds/ideas.

Thanks!  ;D Yeah skipping Flippers altogether would be fantastic, but we're gonna need some major new tricks found before getting through Swamp Palace and just accessing Turtle Rock becomes doable flipperless... Still, progress  ;D

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Reg Hootshot looked possible.
Here's a desc of what I did.


I used the ice rod diagonal(north east). I then walked a little to the east, and aimed north.
Normally when I try to hookshot, it hits the ice block..however, the collision went past it, but I think Link nipped it as he went north.
I managed to hook onto the most west part of the dock(I was facing north).

I can't 100% confirm because I have flippers, but I did try it a few times & saw no swimming animation.

I'll try this on my cartridge and see if I can get it to work... where exactly are you placing the iceberg?

I officially did the glitch, and recorded it.
Uploading now.

edit: Another question. If we go to lorule, will we be able to still obtain the flippers or do we create a dead-end and have to start the game over?

edit2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyabU11uWXQ&list=PLYXYPmpp9mMZk9EOL61_vvogIuAmNx18m&index=51

:o

Oh wow, nice! I wasn't sure a setup for it actually existed, glad it does! I was able to replicate it pretty easily after seeing your video. I think it works because you actually took Link directly overtop the iceberg (whereas most of my setups just had him brushing against the sides). This means Lorule is reachable without flippers!

I went back to see if you could get the flippers after obtaining all the pendants but before heading to Lorule and something kinda interesting happens. All the Zoras except one in that cutscene will have disappeared, though the cutscenes seem to play as normal (plus a few weird camera angles). You can get the flippers from the not-really-there Queen Oren. Gonna do a bit more testing with this and see if anything gets broken further down the line.

edit: Works the same way after getting to Lorule; glitched cutscene plays then you get them.
edit2: Pics:
https://d3esbfg30x759i.cloudfront.net/ss/zlCfzR9p8IAuJ6SHPJ
https://d3esbfg30x759i.cloudfront.net/ss/zlCfzR9p-jsgHfvF-o
https://d3esbfg30x759i.cloudfront.net/ss/zlCfzR9qGaE1vPe7Y1

I'm a little late on this but, wow, that's so awesome :D This is such a great find! I hope one day the flippers will be skippable all together

Early Bottle Note Glitch
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This is something I haven't seen yet, but one could of already assumed.
You can get the bottle note at any time in the game. Just leap and use a bee. Could also use bombs as well.
The Milk Bar will be closed if done too early.

Once the Milk Bar is open, is the guy on death mountain? If he is, it's most likely possible you can get this bottle before obtaining your merge ability.

Just discovered this, pretty sure it is useless, but would appreciate it if people could play around with it. Sorry for the bad quality of video. http://youtube.com/watch?v=z1DsOSCH2cs

Weegeechan wrote

I hope one day the flippers will be skippable all together

On that note, I've made some progress ;D. There seem to be 3 remaining areas in the game that we actually require the Flippers: the lowest basement in Thieve's Hideout, 3 rooms in the Swamp Palace, and accessing Turtle Rock. Let's go in order:



Thieve's Hideout

Refer to RW's video from a while ago for the Big Key/Boss Door skip: http://www.twitch.tv/rheaultwnage/c/4133090

Pretty much I use his method to get on top of the walls on the top floor, then drop down to that room on the third floor. The room where you first clip is on the West side of the dungeon, so you have to move Link East one room to be able to drop down into it. Here's where I drop down from the first floor (SLOWLY moving to the right):
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Here's an alternative place to drop down from when I tried and accidently fell to the second floor first (because I'm bad):
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I'm pretty sure (no, I KNOW) there's a better setup for this, and/or one that doesn't require you to go up and then back down with the clipping, but at the time I'm posting this I haven't found it.

You'll land in the hallway that reveals itself when you go to get the Master Ore:
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Master Ore is obtainable:
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You can walk all the way South and clip right back into bounds, but interestingly (and perhaps uselessly...) you can Tornado Rod on the stairs to get on top of the ceiling:
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But the real meat here is that you can reach this switch to drain the water, without actually going in the water:
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From there, you can backtrack through the dungeon to return to the big center room where the Thief Girl is being held, and complete the dungeon as normal. Yes, Thieve's Hideout is now doable without Flippers ;D

Edit: Apparently most of this OoB stuff was already found by RW (http://www.twitch.tv/rheaultwnage/c/3931062). Even so, I'm just glad that's one less thing preventing Flippers from being skippable.


Swamp Palace

There are 3 problem rooms in the Swamp Palace on the current speedrun route that we need to overcome to do it flipperless.

First room is the very first room in the dungeon. I'm saying it now, mark my words, this will be THE hardest body of water to cross in the entire game flipperless, if it even is possible. There is NOTHING in this room to work with. I tried timing the level pull (which fills the water) with getting hit by bombs to see if getting knocked into the water mid-cutscene might activate Fake Flippers somehow. No dice, bombs get frozen mid-cutscene.
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Second room is the center basement room. Crossing the South East gap doesn't seem possible.
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Third and final problem room is the room where we raise the water level to max and then go back into the room with the Big Key and Boss Door. First issue here is that that switch in the upper left needs to be hit to open the door, but if you hit that switch you're stranded and can't do anything. You'd have to Scoot Fruit/deathwarp your way out of the dungeon and then retrace your steps to that part.
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Relevant segue: I also found a way to make FAKE FLIPPERS (!!!) work in the treasure dungeon where the Swamp Palace is in the light world. If you're standing in a safe (as in, you can respawn to) area when the water level rises, the game automatically puts you into swimming mode, Flippers be damned.

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Non-Miiverse pic to prove it since you need to see both top and bottom screens: https://www.dropbox.com/sc/kh7mk589h3tjtnm/AAC2iJzzM2-5R8qI_alsepz5a

I could swear... and perhaps it's just my mind playing tricks on me... but I feel like I saw someone do that a while ago on stream. I can't remember for the life of me, but if it's just my mind playing tricks on me then I'm happy to have discovered it ;).

Going back to that 3rd problem Swamp Palace room: You can merge along the left side and go all the way around the room to reach the platform where you can raise the water the first time (where I am in the pic). Theoretically, doing so will give you fake flippers (conditions are the same, no?) so you can keep going in the room, but without being able to get past those first two problem rooms I can't test that. But even if that does work, after you raise the water all the way you're stranded again.  

We could potentially get through rooms 2 and 3 if a method is found to reach the switch in the Big Key room without raising the water level (and thereby skip... almost the entire dungeon), but that entry foyer is the big problem I don't know how we're gonna bypass.

Anyway, every other room on the current route is doable without Flippers, usually just requiring some slightly out of the way merging, nothing fancy. Oh wait I lied, one fancy thing: After performing early Big Key dash slide, you need to dash slide a second time to get back onto dry land. Here's the setup from the wiki:
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Turtle Rock

I was trying to get crafty to make Fake Flippers work in the water around Turtle Rock. If you exit the merge and drop right into the water the first time you enter the area, the Hilda text prevents Link from drowning (he even does the idle swimming animation) until she's done talking. At which point you promptly drown and return to where you began the merge in Hyrule. Perhaps if a glitch is ever found to let us control Link while she's talking, we can use it here to temporally put Fake Flippers on Link until he gets into Turtle Rock?
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I was also able to get on this ledge once with the bombing while jumping off trick. You can walk to the right and jump off to reach the portal not normally accessible Flipperless in the river, which... isn't that useful. I was only able to do it once (no pics, sorry  ???), and I did it actually by throwing the (nice) bomb off the side of the cliff and jumping into it so that it hit me in midair. Idk if that's truly any different to just getting hit by it while it's on the ground, but there you have it, maybe that'll lead to something. I was hoping that perhaps getting onto the highest level of the structure would perhaps lead to being able to dash slide or damage boost or something to at least one of the two alternative entrances/exits to Turtle Rock.
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So, in all, here's what I've been able to do Flipperless. Since skipping Flippers will likely only ever be done on Low% (barring early Lorule Castle being found), some of this info is useless, but still:
- Thieve's Hideout Flippers skip means you can get the last Master Ore for making the Lv3 Master Sword, and you can rescue Osfala to get the Sand Rod.
- Blue Mail is unobtainable for what should be obvious reasons.
- Hylian Shield is unobtainable for the same obvious reasons
- 4 of 5 Bottles are obtainable. Bottle with the note in it is obtainable by the method KingOfHeart posted. No way under the bridge without Flippers yet. Perhaps getting on the ledge nearby and dash sliding diagonally will let you enter the loading zone, and come out already swimming? Seems like a stretch.
- 14 Maiamai are submerged in water and thus unreachable (drowning on top of them doesn't pick them up). 1 Maiamai next the waterfall by the Witch's Hut isn't submerged, but I can't figure out how to get there without Flippers. A total of 85 Maiamai are therefore obtainable Flipperless at the moment.

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(didn't get Bee Medal because bee damage boosting is useful)

Aaaaaaand that's all I have for now. I don't know WHY I feel so compelled to beat this game without Flippers :P

Gonna just point out that I was trying to think of a way to reach T-Rock Flipperless. Now, I don't have a Flipperless or even a decent file to test on. Can you kill the four enemies attacking the Turtle Flipperless? I couldn't see a way to do it off-hand, but if it can be done, the Turtle Pyramid Scheme might help us out.

You can bomb-boost yourself to an upper area at a fair chunk of places, and I believe the closest one to the Turtle in right at the south. Doesn't seem like you can dash-slide or anything to reach the turtle tho.

Outside of that, nice job on that huge post, LemonKong. I forgot there were more than just the entrance in Swamp Palace to deal with. (Also, Thieves' one, never crossed my mind there's water in that place, since it's such a small thing)


Nice job on Fake Flippers btw. While right now it's not really useful (Flipperless Treasure room? :P), it at least shows Fake Flippers are a thing, and there might, just MIGHT come something that allows us free reign over it.

I just hope if/when flipperless happens, it'll be doable on low%, because that thing needs to get even worse than it already is. :D So many things are getting close to being skipped (Doesn't mean it'll ever happen tho)

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Can you kill the four enemies attacking the Turtle Flipperless? I couldn't see a way to do it off-hand, but if it can be done, the Turtle Pyramid Scheme might help us out.

I can do the two easy ones but the third is giving me trouble... I can sword beam kill two of them from the dock but I don't know if the other two can be killed the same way (does the sword beam persist long after it goes offscreen?) That'll be the deciding factor, for now. Hm, oh, just had a thought: enemies in this game can hit each other... might be able to get one of them to kill the other by moving Link around...?

Even with that though, I don't know if the stacked turtles will really help. I was observing their swimming patterns yesterday and... yeah they go now where helpful really, not even anywhere that looks like they could be reached with a way too precise TAS level damage boost  :-\

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Outside of that, nice job on that huge post, LemonKong.

Thanks! ;D

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it at least shows Fake Flippers are a thing, and there might, just MIGHT come something that allows us free reign over it.

It needs to happen. That glitch can't possibly exist and have zero use :-\

Oh, and I found one more thing just now that feels like it should have some huge use... but I can't think of one off the top of my head:

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^ Use animation storage to get on top of the switch, stand on the side handle you want to use, and move downward while firing off the Hookshot. The timing's not terrible, and this lets you activate these switches without any solid ground beneath you. I'm really hoping there's a practical application for this somewhere (possibly with other switches/items?), but I can't seem to find one as to get on top of those switches you need to be at whatever water level they're already at, and therefore you could just activate it normally.

So you can pull while in mid air?
What happens if you don't pull? Will you drown or swim?

If you don't pull or let go or anything you just kinda stay put, nothing special really. I can't test what having Flippers does/doesn't have with this since I can't get a Flipperless Link into the dungeon (damn first room...).

I did try changing my equipped items while "hooked" onto the switch and not really doing anything. Any changes you make are immediately reverted when you close the items menu (for both X and Y buttons).

Really good finds Lemon!  ;D I was actually trying to find a flipperless way past that 1st room in Swamp Palace last night and couldn't get anything out of it either. Same goes for Turtle Rock. The entrances are so far away from land that Damage Boosts don't get you close enough.

But I'm sure if we keep trying hard enough we can find something!