Tricks/Glitches/Timesavers topic

SkippyJr wrote

Quick access to Desert Palace with Vulture Bump!  Get bumped onto the edge of the stairs nearest the entrance, and just walk on over.

Just timed this, took me 21 seconds between unmerging from the portal and entering the loading zone of the Palace. I also timed the slowest method to reach the Palace (didn't have the Energy Scroll) and it took me 52 seconds. If I remember correctly, the method using the Scroll was 17 seconds faster than the long one, so the new method would be about 14 seconds faster than the Scroll one.

Good find. :)

Hm IIRC zander told me that the stamina scroll ultimately saves 15 seconds from the merge-method of reaching desert palace alone (and it also saves little bits of time in several minor spots, but let's ignore that for now). So if we do the vulture method, then would skipping the stamina scroll be worth it?

Also that trick looks annoying to do =/

it would seem the vulture method saves about 20 over the scroll but the scroll is kinda used for other skips/fights. not getting it would prolly end in a bad boss fight/trick later on.

Stamina Scroll is pretty useful for the Turtle Rock sequence break, the Dark Big Key room (although there is an energy potion nearby), the Gemesaur fight (energy potion nearby), both Arrghus fights (if you use the Ice Rod), merging the wall during that pink fairies attack in the Yuganon fight, [maybe more].

I don't think it's required for any of those, but it does make life much easier.

Wouldn't Merging during Yuganon waste a bit of time? I always figured it does that, so I just dodge the little buggers.

As far as the other ones, I think the big ones are Turtle Rock and Gemesaur. If Gemesaur can be prevented from moving while still getting the Stamina Potion, that should be another non-issue, but the Turtle Rock sequence break is tough as it is.

So it seems this strat will move the Stamina Scroll to the list of stuff to eventually stop getting, just like the tunics. It makes stuff easier, but ultimatel wastes a bit of time.

The turtle rock sequence break would be terribleto do without the stamina scroll; you'd likely be forced to wait between each ice rod use, so it refills a bit between each platform. I don't think skipping stamina scroll would ultimately be worth it honestly =/ I mean idealy yeah, but in a realistic run...

You end up wasting a least 20 seconds getting the scroll though, because you have to go back up the moving platform, and I don't know if it's just me, but I always have to wait a while for the platform to come down again. I'm not sure it would be worth it to get the scroll unless you can get up the moving platform right away. (Then again, I'm not sure how much time these tricks save, so maybe it is worth it.)

Well there are several minor spots where stamina scroll helps, including the bosses of Dark Palace and Turtle Rock. Heck, with stamina scroll, you can finish off the mask of the dark palace boss without the stamina refill (MAYBE you can do that without? I don't think so?).

Helps also for stealth skip pre-Dark Palace if the chompy enemy is in a bad spot, since you'll have to use sand rod a lot more to shove him into that corner.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6440063/albw/cucco_up_ledges.jpg < I'm confused on how you got on this ledge

KingOfHeart wrote

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6440063/albw/cucco_up_ledges.jpg < I'm confused on how you got on this ledge

I remember seeing a video of this. The guy circled in the air with the cucoo and got there. I don't remember if he went there straight from that ledge where you can jump, or if he went on some house or something else first. IIRC, he couldn't go on the grass left of him either.

Also, I just did a run without getting the Energy Scroll. It is very viable if you practice a few key things first (Mostly Gemesaur King, but also Turtle sequence break and Dark Maze skip). It also allowed me to put Ice Ruins last, which was much less stressful. And it pretty much guaranteed I didn't have to go to the fairies, potentially saving even more time.

Only downside I could think off from doing Ice Ruins last: 1 or 2 more textbox(es) overall, due to 1 more warp with rescued Irene. :P

Gemesaur shouldn't ultimately waste that much time depending how he's positioned. I think ultimately, it's going to come down to how much does the Stamina Scroll stuff save, including the smaller stuff.

For now, I'd definitely go with the Stamina Scroll, as it's not likely to save that much time anyways.

Roadagain wrote

For now, I'd definitely go with the Stamina Scroll, as it's not likely to save that much time anyways.

I timed the difference between going down to get the Scroll or moving along without it. Depending on how the elevator back up cycle goes, I'd say getting the Scroll adds between 13-17 seconds right there.

Now, not having the scroll for both the Turtle Rock and Gemesaur adds a little time, in the range of 2-3 seconds each. Your previous post made me realise how stupid (unless you're literally about to die) it is to merge during the fairies attack in the Yuganon fight, so the Scroll doesn't matter there. :P

Dark Maze skip isn't aftected at all, unless you get REALLY bad luck with the enemies placement/movement. Actually no, that's not true. I saw Zander do a textbox skip in the area just before the skip (merge the wall and move along until past the prison, skips the MUST CAPTURE INTRUDERS text). Doing that isn't a good idea without the scroll, because it will drain most of your Energy before you can even start setting the skip up. I don't think skipping the textbox saves much time though, because you're moving slower while merged (dash towards south-east when not merged), and the distance is a bit long.

Big Key room in Dark Palace isn't a problem now that I learned how to properly throw those goddamn bombs. If I miss one, grab the potion, wastes 2 seconds. Both Arrghus fights are barely hindered. Skip every other Ice Rod attack, waiting for it to recharge. I lose more energy from missed Hookshots than anything else anyway. :(

And I like doing Ice Ruins last because I'm scared eh.

I dunno I still think overall it should be gotten.  I think people just have to get over the Ice Ruins, I do it third or fourth and its not bad once you've done it a bunch.

The Ice Ruins really isn't that bad once you know where all the dangerous spots are and practice it. The boss is also easy if you use the tornado rod strat to dodge the triangle attacks. If you go into the fight with full health, you should have at least 7 hearts, meaning you can take one hit from the triangle attacks (4 hearts) and one hit from the ice ball attacks (2 hearts).

The Ice Ruins can get easier with a lot of practice.
The skips and boss fights without the Scroll can get easier with a lot of practice.

I have practiced both a fair amount of time, and I've gotten pretty decent at the Ice Ruins if I may say so. The thing is, with 7 hearts, there's not much room for error, and we all know shit can easily hit the fan during a run. (hell, I felt from the Turtles going to Turtle Rock in my PB) I've gotten past the Ice Ruins more often than not when I was doing it 3rd, but I'm not an adept dying 90 minutes into a run.

I'd rather mess up the Gemesaur fight really bad and lose 15 seconds than slightly mess up Dharkstare or that room with the Eyegores and lose my run.

Both routes are viable, pick yours.

In a speed run, you would skip the blue mail. It's not about stress, it's about time saving.

well technically if you're going with purely time-saving, you wouldn't go for any safety strats <_< even the top players have safe/backup strats since not everything is ever going to go perfectly. Plus it'll be good for newer runners to start with easier strats (aka blue+red mail for example)

KingOfHeart wrote

In a speed run, you would skip the blue mail. It's not about stress, it's about time saving.

Not at all, there are many places you should get hit by enemies because it's faster but you simply don't have the hearts to do this.

Anyways, minor optimizations time!

How does everyone switch their X/Y items? This is what I personally do and I'm pretty sure is the fastest way.

1. Press SELECT (don't tap ITEM); this is about .2-.3 seconds faster than using the touch screen to open up the item menu because if you use the touch screen, there's an extra short animation of the item button being "tapped"
2. Use my left thumb to tap the item I want to equip, and my right thumb over the face buttons
3. Use my right thumb to immediately press X/Y (this is faster than dragging with the touch screen)
4. Use my right thumb to immediately press B to exit

This is faster than using the touch screen to open up the menu, as well as dragging items which is slow. Doesn't save much time, but considering how much you open up the item menu to change items, it adds up to several seconds in the long run. Just wanted to share that with you all; I still need to break the habit of using the touch screen to open the menu rather than pressing select...

kirbymastah wrote

1. Press SELECT (don't tap ITEM); this is about .2-.3 seconds faster than using the touch screen to open up the item menu because if you use the touch screen, there's an extra short animation of the item button being "tapped"

[...]

I still need to break the habit of using the touch screen to open the menu rather than pressing select...

Link can still walk during that little "down time" from using the touch screen. I usually bring it up in the middle of an easy room, or while I am dashing.

Items with right thumb while moving
DPad with left thumb
X/Y/B with right thumb
Stick with left thumb

It seems pressing Select with left thumb would end up in lost movement frames, unless you bring the menu up right after entering a new room or something. I might give your "select items with left thumb" method a try though, instead of the DPad. :)

While we're at it, for Irene warps I do:

Bell with left thumb
Location with left thumb
Spam A with right thumb

For me:
Items with right thumb while moving
Drag item to X/Y button (probably slow but it's just what I do...)
Items button again with right thumb

And for Irene's Bell:
Bell button with right thumb
Tap the bird statue repeatedly with my right thumb (double tapping the statue works the same as pressing A)
Quickly move my fingers back to the A/B buttons to mash through the text

I mostly just don't use my left thumb for anything because it's reserved for the Circle Pad. I don't want to lose any time due to my thumb not being on the circle pad, so my thumb rarely leaves it.

So probalby using right thumb on select would be better, since you can keep your left thumb on the circle pad? It'll be uncomfortable but hey, if it's faster, you gotta do it :P

Also yes, I'm sure tapping the item is faster than using the d-pad (unless you only have to move it once, for example right when you get bow, you can just d-pad down then press Y; but I'd rather just tap, it's easier.)

For Irene's Bell, i'm pretty sure it's fastest that after you tap the bell icon, you tap the weather vane with your left thumb while mashing A with your right thumb; i'm sure it's frames faster than double tapping the weather vane. Then since you're already mashing A, you can mash through the Irene text.

EDIT: Basically what rheault said (I didn't fully read his post... oops =x). The idea is that right after tapping bell, I'm mashing A while the map is brought up, then I tap the weather vane with my left thumb and it'll 'instantly' select it since I'm mashing A with my right thumb.

TOUCH SCREEN OPTIMIZATIONS FOR THE WIN.

I recall someone mentioned it before, but I couldn't find the post, but Desert Palace, in the room you need to hit the four switches and then go down past a few Beamos. It was mentioned that if you align yourself with one of the switches, you can dash down, hit the wall right next to the door and bounce off the lasers.

I misaligned myself a little bit, and I actually directly dashed through the door while taking the hit from the Beamos. If you can do that, you save a pitifully minimal amount of time.

Roadagain wrote

I misaligned myself a little bit, and I actually directly dashed through the door while taking the hit from the Beamos. If you can do that, you save a pitifully minimal amount of time.

I second this. Something similar happened to me in my PB and I forgot to mention it here. I was too far right, ended up being aligned with the doorframe instead of the wall and Link "pushed" himself right into the doorway instead of left into the wall. I didn't get hit by the Beamos though. I'd say getting straight into the doorway saves about 1 second over bonking on the wall. (lol)

kirbymastah wrote

So probalby using right thumb on select would be better, since you can keep your left thumb on the circle pad? It'll be uncomfortable but hey, if it's faster, you gotta do it :P

I haven't tried using Select to bring up the Items screen, but if it pops up instantly (unlike the half second or so it takes with the touch screen), then it wouldn't matter if you're moving or not, because you won't lose frames like you would with the touch screen.

So, the way I see it, as long as you make use of your method properly, Select or Touch Screen doesn't matter. And yes, pressing Select with the right thumb must feel weird haha.

Well I would say if you press select with your right thumb, it's the fastest. You won't lose frames from letting go of the analog circle pad, and you won't have that delay of "Item" being touched as well; of course, this assumes you tap the item immediately when the menu appears, which is harder than it sounds. But hey, frames matter.

(goes off to practice it)

So, a little time saver in the sages room: you can move before the game lets you by pressing A after the talking. This is what caused many people to move before the warp completes, thus delaying it. So, the ideal way is to press A at the right time and move to the warp. The time is around the time the beam starts appearing on the warp.

Not sure if anyone has found this stuff, please tell me if anyone knows who came up with it
I found a really big OoB wile expanding on the thing Faschz found here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKZCOqmAea4
If you touch a screen transition trigger even while in the air; link will move in the direction of the other screen only falling once the transition is over.
To set this up, I move from this spot: http://i.imgur.com/ituaITn.jpg all the way to the left until your shadow is offscreen http://i.imgur.com/vyUkh0s.jpg then walk downwards until the screen starts to shift.
Then while the screen is moving, hold up on the stick to keep link from sliding down the cliff.
If you do it right you can move around in a huge area OoB. Keep yourself on the edge of the cliff and keep moving along the screens
http://i.imgur.com/l9PoOC4.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/hNI7dYQ.jpg
Follow the cliff up and around until you get here: http://i.imgur.com/UQB4oEJ.jpg
then move down until link is offscreen again: http://i.imgur.com/38BJ3e7.jpg
Face right then dash (or walk, dashing is easier) that will get you across the gap: http://i.imgur.com/E0rm8oU.jpg
Then you can run across the top of a few screens before hitting a wall.
This doesn't seem useful yet, but there are two spots that might have something cool.
http://i.imgur.com/PiSXmAu.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/XO4fhEF.jpg
In these two spots the screen transitions can take you through a wall, where you will just fall outside the map.
However you have one frame to do something before the game knows you have fallen; so you can clip into the wall then tornado rod on the first frame, etc.
I found a couple of other glitches that would let you merge inverted, as in merging to the outside of a wall instead of the inside. But I haven't found a way to duplicate them.

Thomas, fun fact: You can take screenshots via Miiverse. Also that looks pretty amazing.

Very interesting.

Hey, can someone get one screen above the desert temple/swamp and transition south?
If so, you could skip the entire desert dungeon.

This could also be used to maybe get across Dark World borders.. which would help if we ever find a way into the DarkWorld early. (Theory of the kissing lady always having a portal in her house.)

I spent some time with Thomas' finding earlier and posted a slew of images on Miiverse

Weird temporary perspective thing:
https://miiverse.nintendo.net/posts/AYMHAAACAADRUqFo2k6ZwA
https://miiverse.nintendo.net/posts/AYMHAAACAAAYUKlFKqhhLg

Sniping a dude:
https://miiverse.nintendo.net/posts/AYMHAAACAADMUKlfmRCUew

Merging with an invisible wall:
https://miiverse.nintendo.net/posts/AYMHAAACAABnUYnd247pFw

Enemy closeups (achieved by falling into the void along with some planning)
Octorock:
https://miiverse.nintendo.net/posts/AYMHAAACAADMUKlfmPvAvw
Archer guy (very proud of this shot)
https://miiverse.nintendo.net/posts/AYMHAAACAABnUYnd27YY5A

KingOfHeart wrote

Very interesting.

Hey, can someone get one screen above the desert temple/swamp and transition south?
If so, you could skip the entire desert dungeon.

Even if you could reach the appropriate ledges I don't think this will work. After spending some time on those eastern cliffs it seems like you need to take advantage of a proper transition to scroll through the screens. There aren't any transitions period between the desert/swamp and upper areas, so trying to go between them would probably just make you fall through the floor.