100% TP Run GCN

Hello, I'm new to the world of speedrunning, and I've been planning to do a 100% of this game. It's one of my favorite Zelda's to mess around in (besides OOT), so I thought it would be a good one to start out with. I've only found partials of the runs on Youtube and such, so there are things later on that will take more time.

I've been doing a Wooden Sword challenge run on youtube (http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=599473B0BB8DD567) and have been incorporating some speedrun techniques in the temples I've done so far (just a bit here and there, nothing huge major sequence breaking, lol), but want to take the game a little farther. The Wooden Sword run starts in Part 7, because I changed my mind partway through to do it instead of the Ordon Sword. That damn Midna text skip took me two hours to get, lol, but now I can keep the Wooden Sword the whole game, so that's nice.

I've been going over this page (it was listed in another topic): http://speedruns.wikia.com/wiki/Zelda_Twilight#Wii_100.25_route and this seems to be a good base to plan routes around. I want to try and optimize it as much as possible of course.

The one thing I don't really want to do is use a lot of sequence breaking like EMS or the fixed version, because first off, I'm not that great at the trick of getting on that ledge, and second, this is more of a casual run--I'm not out to break records here, considering it's my first. But that doesn't mean I'm not going to try my best to get the best possible time I can.

I've done a few tests so far, such as with fishing and such (I want to fill the fishing journal too with the bobber fishing you do, not the lure fishing), and have been also messing around with routes across hyrule field and in dungeons. I'm pretty efficient with the LJA with the boomerang, but sometimes precision jumping I have trouble with. The Wooden Sword run I'm doing is almost a testing ground to see how much I can do and such.

Thanks for any help and advice you might have for a first time serious speedrunner. I also want to know if anyone has actually completed a 100% run of it (without major sequence breaking) and if you know where it might be posted so I can take a look at it to get ideas for the route.

I did some Epona running tests this morning, just to see if a theory worked out. Would like opinions on the matter:

http://il.youtube.com/watch?v=knjW6Fh5mco

Test Order:

No spurs control.
Waiting for spur refill.
Jump start waiting for refill.
Dismounting for refill.
Jump start dismounting for refill.
Slow spur refill.

I think that backflipping off to refill the spurs is a touch faster, but whether it's practical or not is the question, or if it's even faster. Thanks for taking a look and giving ideas on what you think.

It's nice that you want to do testing of this game, cuz you might find out something interesting, about the route you posted up there, I wrote it mysels, tested it and confirmed it works really well, if you try to improve it, do your best cuz I'm shure it is unimprovable (may be I forgot to write some small tricks there).
About finishing the run, I did it, without major breaks because the route does not have them in order to be a 100%, I has faron early and CitS early but they save around 10 minutes and not hours as in the any%.
I consider pretty much boring doing a run without major breaks, the wooden sword challenge seems interesting, but I am not thinking much at it, may be some others speedrunners will.

A 100% TP run by definition is pretty much absent of sequence breaks anyway, because getting EMS screws up something royally (but i forget what exactly), and Early CitS skips the horse call. However, how is it that you'll do Sword and Shield skip, but not EMS? EMS isn't that hard, unless maybe if you do it as a human.

For me, a Wooden Sword "Challenge" doesn't really interest me that much. The only real difference is that everything takes 4x as long to kill, and it's not that hard to avoid getting hit by just about everything in the game.

mzxrules wrote

because getting EMS screws up something royally (but i forget what exactly), out everything in the game.

I believe that Would be, not being able to do Goron mines.

mzxrules wrote

A 100% TP run by definition is pretty much absent of sequence breaks anyway, because getting EMS screws up something royally (but i forget what exactly), and Early CitS skips the horse call. However, how is it that you'll do Sword and Shield skip, but not EMS? EMS isn't that hard, unless maybe if you do it as a human.

For me, a Wooden Sword "Challenge" doesn't really interest me that much. The only real difference is that everything takes 4x as long to kill, and it's not that hard to avoid getting hit by just about everything in the game.

I spent only about two hours getting the Sword/Shield skip, and have only been able to accomplish EMS on the Wii, but not my gamecube version. I spent four hours trying to get up on the ledge (the easier one), and Link keeps sliding off as soon as I get up, it was rather frustrating. As for the Wooden Sword challenge, for me it is, because it's really my first challenge on anything, so I'm having a lot of fun with it.

Chimpas wrote

It's nice that you want to do testing of this game, cuz you might find out something interesting, about the route you posted up there, I wrote it mysels, tested it and confirmed it works really well, if you try to improve it, do your best cuz I'm shure it is unimprovable (may be I forgot to write some small tricks there).
About finishing the run, I did it, without major breaks because the route does not have them in order to be a 100%, I has faron early and CitS early but they save around 10 minutes and not hours as in the any%.
I consider pretty much boring doing a run without major breaks, the wooden sword challenge seems interesting, but I am not thinking much at it, may be some others speedrunners will.

I didn't mean to imply that the guide was bad, sorry if I came across that way, it looks rather fantastic actually. I like to test things a lot so please don't take offense at that. :) I mainly want to do a 100% run too because everyone is adamant about how horrible it is, and I guess I'm just stubborn that way. *shrug* I'm just crazy I guess, but at least I admit it, lol.

I just like a challenge, and I just really want to do it. I know people are really against the idea, but I'm rather determined to do this. Even if no one watches it, I'll still do it, because I like to push myself with games, and with speedrunning, it'll be nice to go a little farther.

I've been studying tricks and such, and I know I'm extremely new at this and somewhat noobish, but everyone has to start somewhere I guess, and I want to be able to post up segments and get some critiques on how to go faster, what I've done wrong, where I can improve and such like that. Like I said, this is a somewhat casual run, just for fun, but I want to get as fast as I personally can go. Not sure if people like it when someone does speedrunning for fun, but I would appreciate any help.

brynnagiadrosich wrote

I spent only about two hours getting the Sword/Shield skip, and have only been able to accomplish EMS on the Wii, but not my gamecube version. I spent four hours trying to get up on the ledge (the easier one), and Link keeps sliding off as soon as I get up, it was rather frustrating.

GCN EMS is incredibly simple. If you're having trouble, make sure to check out logitechSDAZ's vid of it. I don't really have much advice as experience is a good portion of it.

Razor7581 wrote

GCN EMS is incredibly simple. If you're having trouble, make sure to check out logitechSDAZ's vid of it. I don't really have much advice as experience is a good portion of it.

I've watched that video so many times, and have tried it for hours, like I said, but he won't stay on the ledge for me on the GCN. Wii was fine, I managed to do it there, but GC won't do it for me. *shrug* The sword and shield skip was less frustrating compared to this.

Just got done doing a ton of fishing statistics and have found some interesting things. A friend of mine is helping me plan some things and test things, unfortunately he has the Wii version but I'm testing the stuff he can't test and he's helping me with stuff he can.

So we did some fishing. He has a completed file, and I'm using a copy of my wooden sword file, which is just before the Lakebed temple, after the escort mission.

He was using the coral earring/no bait and I had just the basic rod/bee larvae. I knew that the coral earring is good for catching better fish, but I wanted to see how different it was compared to the regular basic rod with bait on it.

I caught two pikes in an hour of fishing, the rest were the greengills.

He caught the Ordon Catfish from the section where you get the bottle, five bass, three pike, one hylian loach, and the sinking lure from the main area. He caught two greengills in the hour of fishing.

Not sure if this information will help anyone, especially because the fish journal might not be required in a 100%, but I'm including it in my run. I thought it was an interesting find, and this will also put my fishing time sometime in the game after I get the coral earring.

I've also done some testing with how often the blue rupee shows up in the grass outside of the ranch when you run through with Epona, but havn't come to a conclusion yet.

Fish are going to push the time too far lol have fun. Also don't double post.

I didn't think double posting was bad, sorry. I thought since it was information, people wouldn't mind. That and not a whole lot of people think that 100% for this game is a good idea, lol. Well, I mainly just gathered the fish information because I wanted to, I might drop it later on, might not. I have lots of time to figure it out since I wouldn't fish anyway until after the coral earring.

I'm getting better at the slide off of Epona, that's for sure. I can get it pretty much every time.

What part have you practiced up to? Or are you allowed to say, lol?

brynnagiadrosich wrote

I've watched that video so many times, and have tried it for hours, like I said, but he won't stay on the ledge for me on the GCN. Wii was fine, I managed to do it there, but GC won't do it for me. *shrug* The sword and shield skip was less frustrating compared to this.

Sword & shield skip was a lot more frustrating for me, so let me try to give you some tips on EMS. Make sure Link is standing in front of the tree pictured in the vid, and make sure that when you lure the twilight messanger, that he is as close to the wall as possible. If there is a gap between him and the wall reset his positioning cause you almost certainly won't get it right. Make sure that when Link jumps he does so diagnoly over the messanger's head onto the ledge. Press forward on the analog stick if you're not sure.

Okay, I'll try getting him as close to the wall as possible--does it matter where the camera is, maybe? I tend to fidgit with the camera a bit while doing this, so that might be causing something to mess up. Yeah, the jump usually goes okay, and he'll land on the ledge, but no matter where I land and how, he just slides right off. >.<

I'll try it again using your tips though, because I do want to accomplish this on the GCN version and not the Wii, lol. Thanks for the tips!

I'm at Arbiter's Ground Also it might just be me who doesn't like double posting.

brynnagiadrosich wrote

Okay, I'll try getting him as close to the wall as possible--does it matter where the camera is, maybe? I tend to fidgit with the camera a bit while doing this, so that might be causing something to mess up. Yeah, the jump usually goes okay, and he'll land on the ledge, but no matter where I land and how, he just slides right off. >.<

I don't know about the camera, but I nromally have it somewhat behind Link.

Quote

I'll try it again using your tips though, because I do want to accomplish this on the GCN version and not the Wii, lol. Thanks for the tips!

You're welcome.

To be honest, I think the sword and shield skip is easier than EMS. S&S skip is really very easy to pull off once you get the hang of it. EMS is partially luck-based which makes it annoying.

In any case, from what logitech told me a bit back, you don't need to do EMS for 100% anyway. You can enter the Goron Mines but the problem is you can't trigger the Eldin Bridge getting warped away with EMS, which prevents you from getting the portal there. In turn, you can't warp the bridge out of the desert, so you can't get into the cave of ordeals.

I think the route on the wiki should be fine but it's possible there are a few places here and there where the route could be improved... it's a large and complicated one. Good luck with the run anyway... TP 100% is quite an undertaking, I'd definitely be interested in watching it if you did it.

Paraxade wrote

To be honest, I think the sword and shield skip is easier than EMS. S&S skip is really very easy to pull off once you get the hang of it. EMS is partially luck-based which makes it annoying.

In any case, from what logitech told me a bit back, you don't need to do EMS for 100% anyway. You can enter the Goron Mines but the problem is you can't trigger the Eldin Bridge getting warped away with EMS, which prevents you from getting the portal there. In turn, you can't warp the bridge out of the desert, so you can't get into the cave of ordeals.

I think the route on the wiki should be fine but it's possible there are a few places here and there where the route could be improved... it's a large and complicated one. Good luck with the run anyway... TP 100% is quite an undertaking, I'd definitely be interested in watching it if you did it.

Ooh, yeah, need the portal I think (and cave of ordeals has the poes), so EMS will have to be out of the question for 100% (I have two memory cards I've been messing around on with the game--one card is for my wooden sword run, and the other is trying out different glitches, and I really just want to do EMS for fun, but daggum, it's frustrating for me.)

Yeah, with the sword/shield skip, I could at least look for the line on the wall and do practicing with it, and then there's the fact that you don't have to go through the mists every time you mess up (I accidentally killed all three of them at least 15 times >.<), whereas if you kill the moblin, then you can just reset at the spring. Less time setting it up, which leads to less frustration compared to EMS.

Yeah, I want to do a lot of testing on the route, I'm sure it's good, but like you said, there's always somewhere I'm sure a route could be a bit different. The main thing I see having a problem with the Poes is the whole night/day thing, it's a shame there's no way to pass the time quickly. I've been studying the route and doing some testing on many different things as well. I'll probably post more findings later on in the week. Even if everyone knows about certain things, I always think the more information you have on something, the better you can do it.

If you use the route right it should be night when you are near a poe.

ComboKing wrote

If you use the route right it should be night when you are near a poe.

Okay, cool.

Yeah the poes are the sole reason why routing 100% for this game is so complicated. :/ You seem like you're on the right track though so best of luck.

For sword & shield skip you mostly just need to pull it off a few times to get the hang of where exactly the bulblin has to be when you want to attack it, and from then on it gets pretty easy. Doing it quickly is still luck-based though :/

Paraxade wrote

Yeah the poes are the sole reason why routing 100% for this game is so complicated. :/ You seem like you're on the right track though so best of luck.

For sword & shield skip you mostly just need to pull it off a few times to get the hang of where exactly the bulblin has to be when you want to attack it, and from then on it gets pretty easy. Doing it quickly is still luck-based though :/

Hehe, yeah, the first time I tried it, I was all like "HOW...I DON'T EVEN...", and then I kept studying the video and testing out different angles, and FINALLY got it. Sort of clicked from there. Still difficult to do, but at least I know what to look for.

Yeah, I know I won't be the fastest speedrunner out there for a 100%, but I do want to go as fast as I personally can. Is it okay to post progress in this thread, and maybe post some videos of segments to get help with them? Should I edit the first post to put the videos there, or do a reply?

Yeah post them. Doesn't matter where.

I was looking over the guide and saw this:

SEGMENT # 73: Hyrule Castle Town 2.
       * Warp to Castle Town.
       * Catch the bug in the flowers at south [GB #13 Butterfly Male]
ALL GOLDEN BUGS DONE
       * Kill the Poe next to the owl statue [PS #9]
       * Warp to Eldin Bridge and run to Hidden Village.
       * Howling stone.
   * Cat minigame [HP #40]
       * Climb to the roof near the entrance [PS #55]
       * Warp to Castle Town.
       * Donate to old man 50x9 + 30x2 rupees [R: 60]
       * Play and beat the star game [CS: Giant Quiver] [R: 45]
       * Donate rest of bugs [CS: Giant Wallet]
ALL UPGRADES DONE
       * Donate 50x4 to old man [HP #15] [HC # 17]
ALL HEARTS DONE
       * Kill Poe on the bridge of west exit [PS #8]
ALL POE SOULS DONE
       * Turn in Poes with Jovani
ALL ITEMS DONE
       * Enter Hyrule castle.
       * See cut scene.
       * Golden wolf [HS #7 Great Spin]
ALL HIDDEN SKILLS DONE
       * Save inside Hyrule Castle dungeon.

You can see my concern with the cat minigame. Is there a fastest recorded time for that at the moment? And is there anyway I could possibly put that into it's own segment? I was thinking of saving after the warp to castle town. Is there any way this might hurt something down the line? I'd really almost like that to be the start of a segment, because it has the potential danger of going way too long because of cat A.I. I pretty much know the cat locations, but it's when they start following you around there's that mix-up potential.

Thanks for any help/tips on this.

EDIT:

I think I got a rather good first segment, but still need help timing it. I think I got the timing down (like where to start/stop, but I need confirmation. Here's the unlisted video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ttdd2XtGA08

DESCRIPTION: Finally got a good herding AND the blue rupee. I was amazed. I would get the blue rupee maybe one out of seven tries. Herding could be better by a few seconds I think, but I'm just happy one didn't go off into la-la land. I'm probably going to try and improve this anyway, just need help with learning how to time this.

I was timing where I gained control of Link up to the exact moment the file saved. Not sure if this is the correct way to time it. Using that system, I got 2:12.12. Please correct if I'm wrong.

You seem to be short one rupee according to the route, but I'm sure you can make it up somewhere else.  Also, don't forget to do the BITE glitch after getting the iron boots, it saves some time; idk if it is listed in the route right now though. 

JRD05 wrote

You seem to be short one rupee according to the route, but I'm sure you can make it up somewhere else.  Also, don't forget to do the BITE glitch after getting the iron boots, it saves some time; idk if it is listed in the route right now though. 

There's a rupee under the bridge I can grab if I don't re-do the segment, which I probably will. Just sort of need confirmation on my timing.

How would doing the BITE after getting the iron boots save time in a 100% run?

Your timing is good. I know a trick in the hidden village I'll get a video. Also I'll try to find a route for the cat game. Also you will be able to get rupees in other places if you miss some. I have to edit the route a bit. Search on Youtube for BiTE 100% timesaver.

It would eliminate the travel time from the Faron Woods bridge to Kakariko Village.  By doing a BITE off of the Faron Woods bridge, you can go straight to the first fight with King Bulblin.  I believe it saves at least 2 minutes in a run and I think it is discussed further in the other 100% thread.  You can probably find the said video there. 

You can save even more time through doing BITE on a separate game file and then load your speed run.  This way, you can cut out the entire trip from Mayor Bo's house to Kakariko Village.  However, if you are going to submit the run to SDA, you most likely won't be using this method of BITE because it might be a violation of their rules.

ComboKing wrote

Your timing is good. I know a trick in the hidden village I'll get a video. Also I'll try to find a route for the cat game. Also you will be able to get rupees in other places if you miss some. I have to edit the route a bit. Search on Youtube for BiTE 100% timesaver.

Cool, yeah, if you can come up with a route for those, would be awesome. When I get there in my WS run, I'll do some testing too in case you haven't gotten one yet.

JRD05 wrote

It would eliminate the travel time from the Faron Woods bridge to Kakariko Village.  By doing a BITE off of the Faron Woods bridge, you can go straight to the first fight with King Bulblin.  I believe it saves at least 2 minutes in a run and I think it is discussed further in the other 100% thread.  You can probably find the said video there. 

You can save even more time through doing BITE on a separate game file and then load your speed run.  This way, you can cut out the entire trip from Mayor Bo's house to Kakariko Village.  However, if you are going to submit the run to SDA, you most likely won't be using this method of BITE because it might be a violation of their rules.

Okay, searched for the video and I had forgotten about it.

Using the BITE (according to the video), I would save after the iron boots like normal, do the goat herd/heart piece, then save again, which would put me at Bo's house.

This is where I get confused. The video says to load the previous save file, but does logitech mean just load the save file you just saved with the iron boots, or load the file with the save of the goat herding/heart piece? Just for clarification.

Thanks for reminding me about it.

If I recall correctly, you MUST SAVE INSIDE MAYOR BO'S HOUSE, or else the game will crash when you re-load your save with BiTE. Once you save, head over to the bridge leading to Faron Woods (or nearest OoB), reset to activate BiT, jump of the Bridge of Eldin and activate BiTE, then load the game that you've just saved at Mayor Bo's House.

Simple.

mzxrules wrote

If I recall correctly, you MUST SAVE INSIDE MAYOR BO'S HOUSE, or else the game will crash when you re-load your save with BiTE. Once you save, head over to the bridge leading to Faron Woods (or nearest OoB), reset to activate BiT, jump of the Bridge of Eldin and activate BiTE, then load the game that you've just saved at Mayor Bo's House.

Simple.

awesome, thanks