VC Control Stick Mapping

Ok, I haven't had much time to work on this because of exams. I did take a look into OoT's behaviour. The mapping table ING supplies in the first post is almost always correct. The mapping only changes when you are holding the analog stick diagonal and very far from its center. With far I mean that N64 values that are diagonal (so N64 X and Y values are about the same) and have a distance longer than 80 from the center (basically you hold your analog stick in a maximum position diagonally) don't have the same GC values as the mapping table that was used before. 80 Is a pretty high value for an N64 controller, I am pretty sure the one I use doesn't reach this value and others barely. This would basically mean that the only place where the mapping could feel off (the rest of the mapping is probably as good as it can be, it's on VC, so ofcourse it's gonna still feel a little different from N64) and be improved is on the really high diagonal values.

Pheenoh, could you try to describe what feels strange about OoT? Because making a big mapping table doesn't change a lot, except that it could potentially fix the really high diagonal values. Due to the fact that an N64 controller barely reaches these and I doubt you would feel a real difference, I don't know if it's worth it, because it would also mean that the code doesn't fit on a Raphnet adapter anymore. Also, the behaviour of the mapping is really weird on the high diagonals, which makes it really hard to find the best GC values for N64 data that never occurs.

Don't hate for necro, I'm genuinely curious about this.

I'm in contact with Raphaël because I'm scared of programming them on my own and he said he'd be willing to make the necessary adjustments if I gave him the .hex files.

Cool. It seems MM is all figured out but I care more about OoT. It seems that is working fine, though the last two posts made me worry a bit:

What's your status, whyieyesya?

Loving your work! As soon as I get the adapter and tested it, I'll be sure to donate you some money for your work.

Happy Holidays you all :)
Vulp

Soon I have holidays and I'll check it a bit better, but for now this is my conclusion for OoT:

The mapping for OoT should only be different when you hold your N64 control stick diagonal and very far from the center. The distance however is barely reachable with an N64 control stick as far as I know. Most N64 control sticks won't reach this point and I would be surprised if it is well noticeable that it is different when your N64 control stick does reach it. Let's just say it's the only theoretical drawback I could find, which probably isn't noticeable. I did try to make the same really big mapping table just like with MM, but I couldn't get it to work very quickly, so I kind of gave up, because it shouldn't matter that much anyways. Also, if I were to provide a big mapping table for MM as well as OoT it won't fit on the chip I am using right now and I would need another one, making it incompatible with the Raphnet adapter. MM is the game for which a big mapping table makes sense and it also needs it to function properly, so I didn't really bother with a big mapping table for OoT anymore, just because of some theoretical drawback, that probably isn't noticeable.

Extended superslides and precise aiming should be about as easy as on N64, because as I said earlier, only the diagonals where your control stick is far off center have a different mapping that isn't accounted for. Also, I have been playing a lot of OoT with this adapter and it's ten times better than without an adapter.

The firmware as of now, will not work well with every VC games. Super Mario 64 uses a really different mapping for example, that has no deadzone. I'll include a mapping that works the same as Raphaels adapter in the final firmware, so there is a mapping you can select that works for every game. I am also gonna look into the mapping from the GC versions of OoT and MM, allthough I think they are the same as the one OoT VC uses.

Eventually I am going to sell these as well by the way. I had some problems finding N64 extension cables for a good price, but I have them now. I only need to order the PCBs, which will happen soon. I'll aim my price to be lower than the one on Raphnet.

Awesome. Will definitely be getting one of these ASAP.

So when is this gonna be available? I'm actually thinking of getting back into MM and I'd really like to have one of these adapters ASAP so I can actually play VC without it feeling like an awful clunky pile of shit.

ING-X wrote

So when is this gonna be available? I'm actually thinking of getting back into MM and I'd really like to have one of these adapters ASAP so I can actually play VC without it feeling like an awful clunky pile of shit.

Sorry, didn't see your reply.

I received the PCBs this week and finally managed to get one of them programmed and running. Unfortunately I have tests this week and next week and after that I will be on holiday for a week, so basically I can ship one in three weeks. Would that work for you?

Yeah that's fine. That's actually much sooner than I thought lol.

Out of curiosity's sake, how much effort would be needed to make a GC pad version of the adapter? Complete overhaul, or..?

EverAlert wrote

Out of curiosity's sake, how much effort would be needed to make a GC pad version of the adapter? Complete overhaul, or..?

I was already planning it. I wrote some code but haven't had time to test it yet. At the moment I am having severe issues again with getting the code programmed to the chips (I managed to get one working), so it could potentially delay stuff. :( :(

Ah, that's interesting. I'll keep a closer eye on this thread, then. If you need a test dummy I'll be more than willing to help, I'm very interested in angle change sexiness without giving up GC pad. :D

I got the GC version working. Right now I am in the process of making the GC stick feel better. The GC stick is way more sensitive. If you for example use an GC to N64 adapter and you don't perform a conversion on the analog stick values from the Gamecube controller it will feel a little too sensitive. Right now I am trying to come up with a good fix for this, meaning I already fixed it, but it can probably be done better. :)

Unfortunately the PCBs I got are faulty. I had to order new ones, which I did like 1.5 weeks ago, but shipping is gonna take longer, because of Chinese new year. This means the N64 version of the adapter is delayed. The GC version should also work on this PCB, so by the time the PCBs arrive and work both N64 and GC version are gonna be for sale.

In case you are interested in the GC version, you can check out my stream, I'll be testing it this week.

i suppose i should write a small review seeing as how I got the first ever adapter.

I've had the N64-Wii Adapter for quite a while now (whyieyesya's custom one, that is) and it's working really well. The controls seem right, the movement is great and there's but one small downside:
(this is highly subjective) the z button (in oot) seems delayed by one frame.

I can't provide indisputable evidence as this will always be subjective (unless you use some technical devices that I don't own) but I noticed it. My unbuffered swordless DoT skip consistency on Emu (+ N64/USB adapter) and N64 was close to 100% before, so it was the first thing i noticed. Using the same timing and 'feel', I never managed to get the right frame; i was always exactly ONE frame behind.

Running around the place pressing Z makes it even more apparent, especially when you're used to the way it should work. At first I thought i was imagining it but I'm 100% sure now that the Z button input is delayed by exactly 1 frame.

Might be because this is a prototype, I don't know, but I've given up on unbuffered swordless dot skip because forcing yourself to do it one frame earlier than the thousands of times you've done it before is incredibly strenuous and I honestly don't want to go through that lol. Luckily the start button input isn't delayed at all, so that works well
Thought I should mention it. Might not happen with the other ones, but it certainly happened with mine. I consider it an acceptable downside to the fact that we can have both N64 controls and ESS position in particular as well as VC advantages.

kinda hax


Anyhow, the adapter is amazing, the multiple configurations work like a charm and... thank you, whyieyesya :)

cheers

I'll try to verify, if what you're saying about the Z-button is true. Should be easy to fix, if it is. It could also be your adapter. I'll try to figure out as much as I can and see if I can fix things for you as well.

What also might be the case, is that the difference between Project64 and VC emulation is screwing up things for you. As far as I know, practicing frame perfect tricks on PC and then switching to VC has never been a good idea.

Unfortunately the PCBs have only been sent to me this week, so it's probably gonna take two weeks before they arrive here.  :-X You can always PM me if you want to have the .hex.

The GC Version is pretty good, but its analog stick will always stay inferior for ESSing and angle changing compared to an N64 controller. I can still easily angle change with it though, but it's harder than with an N64 conroller. Getting the WESS with it is a lot easier (inexcusable if you miss it :P) and aiming makes more sense. Currently, I'm still tweaking the analog stick a bit.

whyieyesya wrote

Unfortunately the PCBs have only been sent to me this week, so it's probably gonna take two weeks before they arrive here.  :-X You can always PM me if you want to have the .hex.

The GC Version is pretty good, but its analog stick will always stay inferior for ESSing and angle changing compared to an N64 controller. I can still easily angle change with it though, but it's harder than with an N64 conroller. Getting the WESS with it is a lot easier (inexcusable if you miss it :P) and aiming makes more sense. Currently, I'm still tweaking the analog stick a bit.

Do you have an idea of how much your adapter will cost, and will you post to the UK? I speedrun Zelda OoT / Mario 64 and am looking for an accurate N64 adapter to use with the Wii VC, I was going to buy the raphnet one but this sounds like it will be more accurate for OoT? Unfortunately I don't have the ability to solder so can't update whatever I buy.

Price will be about 25$ with shipping, but I haven't fully decided yet. It's not gonna differ a lot from this estimate though. :P Shipping to the UK also isn't a problem. Hopefully I receive the PCBs this week.

The adapter is really good for OoT and aims for N64 like controls. I don't know the mapping for Mario 64 at the moment, but I can probably include it. My current firmware does have a universal mapping, which is exactly like Raphnet's adapter in order to make every game work. That one seemed to work fine for Mario 64 for me, because you don't really seem to need that much precision.

whyieyesya wrote

Price will be about 25$ with shipping, but I haven't fully decided yet. It's not gonna differ a lot from this estimate though. :P Shipping to the UK also isn't a problem. Hopefully I receive the PCBs this week.

The adapter is really good for OoT and aims for N64 like controls. I don't know the mapping for Mario 64 at the moment, but I can probably include it. My current firmware does have a universal mapping, which is exactly like Raphnet's adapter in order to make every game work. That one seemed to work fine for Mario 64 for me, because you don't really seem to need that much precision.

Thanks for the reply, sounds good, I'll definitely wait for your one. Yeah, the Raphnet adapter is fine for Mario 64, Siglemic is using one for 70-Star Mario 64 VC runs now so hopefully the universal mapping on yours can work as good as the Raphnet one.

Are you still planning on having a connector where people can reprogram/update it themselves without soldering (as mentioned earlier in the thread)? That would be a really nice feature even if it makes the adapter more expensive.

I received the PCBs and they are working like they should. This means I am probably selling them within a week (N64 version). I still want to test everything a bit and I'm also gonna check if the Z-button really has a one frame delay. The GC version is gonna take a bit longer, because I still need to find time to optimise the control stick feeling.

ZakO wrote

Thanks for the reply, sounds good, I'll definitely wait for your one. Yeah, the Raphnet adapter is fine for Mario 64, Siglemic is using one for 70-Star Mario 64 VC runs now so hopefully the universal mapping on yours can work as good as the Raphnet one.

Are you still planning on having a connector where people can reprogram/update it themselves without soldering (as mentioned earlier in the thread)? That would be a really nice feature even if it makes the adapter more expensive.

If it was practical I would have certainly done it. The problem is that heatshrink is the best I can do to give the adapter some sort of case.

OK, the current firmware has the following mappings: OoT VC, MM VC, OoT GC (convenient for Master Quest). It also offers the mappings the Raphnet adapters has, of which one is more sensitive than the other.

If anyone has any suggestions for the firmware, I'd love to hear it (offer different mappings for instance). I can probably sell them after this weekend. If you are interested in one, you can send me a PM. The adapter is 25$ with shipping.

I had a raphnet adaptor for running DK64 & SM64 it was good but I lost it, I was going to buy another but want to start running Zelda MM too so this sounds like a better option. Will it have levels of adjustable analog stick sensitivity like the raphnet adaptor, e.g hold d-left / hold d-right while connecting, or just two profiles with different sensitivity? Did you look at the potential issue mentioned by Vulpone too? Sorry if I sound like I'm being fussy just checking because I can't solder to update if any problems are fixed later.

thanks

OoT and MM each have their own special mapping to make it feel like on N64. The controls on the N64 are perfect imo, so adding a sensitivity setting is useless. It would also probably ruin ess, so there isn't really a point for it. The adapter also comes with two universal mappings that are about the same as the two mappings the Raphnet adapter offers (the two sensitivity settings the Raphnet adapter offers). You can select a mapping by holding a certain button on the controller while plugging in the adapter. Here's a list of the mappings and the corresponding button to be pressed:

OoT VC - D-up
MM VC - D-down
OoT GameCube (maybe handy for people that still play MQ?) - D-left
Universal mapping - D-right
Universal mapping that is more sensitive - L

I'm 100% sure the issue Vulpone mentions isn't the case. If it was the case it would also have to happen for other buttons. I also hooked up the adapter to some measurement equipment to verify it.

Edit: I actually think I understand your post better now. As far as I know the Raphnet adapter only has two sensitivity settings, which correspond to the universal mappings I included.

The Raphnet adapter actually has 3 sensitivity settings - "low" sensitivity (d-pad left, actually a direct mapping of GC inputs to N64 inputs), "normal" sensitivity (no input on startup, the sensitivity is increased to better fit the N64 controller), and "high" sensitivity (d-pad right, more sensitive than the other 2 [iirc it's twice as sensitive as "low" sensitivity]).

In that case I included normal and high sensitivity. These pretty much work for any game. I don't know which ones you would prefer to have included ING-X? I could look if I could also include the low sensitivity one, but it might not fit, because the MM-fix takes up a lot of space.

I need better heat shrink to pack the adapter in, so it's gonna take a bit longer.

Yeah, low sensitivity is pretty useless since you can barely reach full running speed on it.

Really wanna get this ASAP  :P

Any update on this? Really looking forward to getting one, I hate the Gamecube controller and would love to have an accurate n64 adapter. (sorry if I'm being impatient :P)

I'll be selling them this coming week. Everything arrived finally. It's been taking too long lol.

GC version will be worked on in two weeks, because I have exams.

sorry if i'm beating a dead horse, but any progress on the gc version? :)

I'll probably be working on it this week. I noticed a few problems with it, like being unable to backwalk in MM when pulling stick straight down and for some reason I can't seem to get the spirit cutscene skip. This could take some time to fix, because I want to test it thoroughly.

Edit: I don't have time to finish the GC one for now. It will be finished eventually, because I prefer GC controller. I'll probably finish it in a few weeks when I have holidays.

hi i would possibly like to buy one of these adapters how much does it cost?

They are 25$ with shipping included. If you're interested in buying one you can send me a message.