Are these functional with sm64?
Are these functional with sm64?
I don't know if SM64 has the same mapping as OoT, but I heard some good things from people that used it to play SM64 with the OoT mapping. It's a better idea to extract the SM64 mapping and make a different firmware for the adapter.
I'm going to add a programming connection to the next version of the adapter, so you can easily update to new/different firmwares. I'll look into the SM64 mapping, so people can use it if they want.
Yeah if you actually looked into sm64 mapping i'd definitely buy one as soon as you finish the next version. Are you still working on this?
Yeah if you actually looked into sm64 mapping i'd definitely buy one as soon as you finish the next version. Are you still working on this?
Yes, I just extracted the SM64 mapping. It's a bit different from OoT. I'm waiting for new PCBs now though, because I switched some parts and thought it was a good idea to add a programming connection.
yooo any updates on this?
Waiting for new PCBs that feature a programming connector, so it can be easily updated. I think they will arrive this week.
yooo id buy one for sm64 aswell, if you dont mind making it ~
yooo id buy one for sm64 aswell, if you dont mind making it ~
I don't mind at all. ;) Still haven't received the PCBs though. ???
Edit: Sorry guys, still no PCBs, as of Oct. 13.
Last edited 13 Oct 2013, 10:28 by whyieyesya.
seems to be taking awhile :(
Yes, unfortunately the PCBs have a huge delay. I've almost been waiting six weeks for them. I did contact the seller this week and they were still able to trace the package, so it doesn't seem lost. If I don't receive them tomorrow I'll just contact them again, to see if the package actually changed location in a week.
Is there any sort of patch or program for the VC to make the controls less sensitive?
I'd be interested in buying an adapter in the near future... if it's available.
So finally the PCBs have arrived. I tested one to verify if they work and they do. ;D
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I'll be able to start selling these starting next week. The GC version can also be ordered from now on. You can send me a PM, if you want one. Because I'm using a case and some other components the price will be a little higher than before, to cover for these and shipping rate, but it really won't be that much higher.
Also, I have not been able to test my firmware with a Hori Pad, since I don't have one. If it doesn't work correctly I'll try to fix this. You can easily update this newest version of the adapter with a programmer you can get for a few bucks from eBay. Also, the GC version's firmware isn't final yet. I still want to add stuff like settings for more sensitive L and R triggers, like on the Gamecube version.
I'll probably make a webpage that centralizes most info about the adapter. This topic has grown quite large.
There isn't. If anyone has some guidelines (hex editing the WAD, don't even know if that is possible) of how to do this, if possible at all, I'd be very interested.
Original image
I'll be able to start selling these starting next week. The GC version can also be ordered from now on. You can send me a PM, if you want one. Because I'm using a case and some other components the price will be a little higher than before, to cover for these and shipping rate, but it really won't be that much higher.
Also, I have not been able to test my firmware with a Hori Pad, since I don't have one. If it doesn't work correctly I'll try to fix this. You can easily update this newest version of the adapter with a programmer you can get for a few bucks from eBay. Also, the GC version's firmware isn't final yet. I still want to add stuff like settings for more sensitive L and R triggers, like on the Gamecube version.
I'll probably make a webpage that centralizes most info about the adapter. This topic has grown quite large.
Is there any sort of patch or program for the VC to make the controls less sensitive?
There isn't. If anyone has some guidelines (hex editing the WAD, don't even know if that is possible) of how to do this, if possible at all, I'd be very interested.
How much would one cost currently (with shipping to US)?
How much would one cost currently (with shipping to US)?
I did some calculations. Previous price was 25$ (which includes shipping) and the new parts add up to about 3$, so the new price is 28$ and that covers shipping for just about any country (US, Europe).
I'll post a pic once I have one fully assembled, so people will get an idea of what they are actually getting.
cool stuff. I might get the gcn one later.
SM64 N64->VC ADAPTER ~~~~~~ i still want one btw ;D
SM64 N64->VC ADAPTER ~~~~~~ i still want one btw ;D
Next week I'm soldering some adapters, because I have a deadline tomorrow. I'll make an SM64 version for you then.
Nov. 19: Been busy soldering the adapters. I still need to do the cases, the cables and the programming connectors. I'll probably be ready to ship most next week, because I can't do anything in the weekends.
I'm also improving the GC version a bit. I still need to add functionality for L and R button sensitivity + Majora's Mask still has problems when backwalking. I don't know if I have this firmware ready by next week. You can either wait until it is finished, but you can also buy a programmer (3$ on eBay I believe) and update it yourself.
Here's an example of what you will receive by the way (GameCube version):
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Last edited 19 Nov 2013, 22:07 by whyieyesya.
I don't really understand what the GCN adapter does, is it to make the GCN stick feel more like the N64 stick?
If so, with the N64 adapter you compared data to confirm that the stick worked as equally as possible to the original, are you doing with with the Gamecube adapter too?
If so, with the N64 adapter you compared data to confirm that the stick worked as equally as possible to the original, are you doing with with the Gamecube adapter too?
I don't really understand what the GCN adapter does, is it to make the GCN stick feel more like the N64 stick?
Yes, it's mainly to get rid of the deadzone and spread the control over all possible analog stick values. Making it feel like an N64 stick is really hard, because they are very different. What I noticed is that holding ESS on a GC stick is very hard. That's why I perform a few mods to the GC version, to make the ESS region bigger to make ESS easier.
Quote
If so, with the N64 adapter you compared data to confirm that the stick worked as equally as possible to the original, are you doing with with the Gamecube adapter too?
I have no idea with what you mean with "as equally as possible to the original". If you mean like on N64 with an N64 controller, then I'd say it's impossible to compare both controllers, because of the huge differences. But as I already said I do my best with this adapter to give the GC controller a very good level of control, like you have with an N64 controller.
Oh I see so the GCN adapter is more of an improvement.
I meant that with the N64 adapter your goal was to have the N64 controller perform on VC just like it does on N64.
How much of an improvement is the GCN adapter? I know that with the adapter for the N64 you were wary not to make it easier than the original.
This is really interesting stuff :D
I meant that with the N64 adapter your goal was to have the N64 controller perform on VC just like it does on N64.
How much of an improvement is the GCN adapter? I know that with the adapter for the N64 you were wary not to make it easier than the original.
This is really interesting stuff :D
Hey whyieyesya, out of curiosity how would you word a rule about turbo/macros for the leaderboards so it is clear what kind of stuff is allowed/banned? I figured I'd ask you as you have a lot of knowledge about how controllers send the signal etc. so you could come up with a solid, reasonable definition.
How much of an improvement is the GCN adapter?
Putting the control stick into ESS position is very easy and totally not arbitrary anymore. Angle changing can also be done fine, but it will never be as good as on N64. The N64 controller is very stiff, with the GC controller you can slip more easily and lose ESS.
Hey whyieyesya, out of curiosity how would you word a rule about turbo/macros for the leaderboards so it is clear what kind of stuff is allowed/banned? I figured I'd ask you as you have a lot of knowledge about how controllers send the signal etc. so you could come up with a solid, reasonable definition.
That's a tough one. I mainly started this thing, because on emulator you could just use any controller with any settings you liked. I hated missing the WESS on VC and people said using an N64 controller would make it better, but still not N64 like. Then someone pointed me to this topic and I didn't really think improving the adapter could do any harm considering on emulator any settings could be used.
If I had to word a rule, I guess it would be something like this:
- Any controller can be used.
- Turbo is not allowed.
- A button may only generate input for one button.
- Analog sticks can only be mapped to analog sticks, not to buttons.
- Any sensitivity mod to the analog stick is fine, as long as a max input on the analog stick results in the actor moving at its top speed.
- A button may not generate an analog stick value.
I don't know if I'm missing something very important. I'm not a very serious speedrunner. :P I'll clarify how I came up with these rules below. I ignore the possibility of playing on emulator here for certain reasons.
QuoteAny controller can be used.
Banning controllers could scare people away. There are people that prefer N64 controller over Gamecube. This would mean they would have to run on the N64 version of OoT.
QuoteA button may only generate input for one button.
This one means that if a button is pressed the game should notice only one button being pressed. Mapping the same button to different buttons is still allowed by this, kind of like c-values on VC are mapped to both C-stick and X,Y,Z buttons on GC controller. This last remark could potentially make button mashing easier. What if you would map one button to two buttons on your controller, in that case you can mash both buttons and have a higher mash rate. I really don't know what to do with that one. A rule could be that a button can only be mapped to as many buttons as on the original (following me here?).
Quote]Analog sticks can only be mapped to analog sticks, not to buttons.
Being able to map buttons to the analog stick could make mashing considerably easier by spinning the control stick for instance. I'd say this should not be allowed. It deviates too much from the original.
QuoteAny sensitivity mod to the analog stick is fine, as long as a max input on the analog stick results in the actor moving at its top speed.
As for the line "max input on the analog stick results in the actor moving at its top speed", imagine there's a mod that makes max input on the controller only give a value in ESS position. By doing that, a very easy and fast way of angle changing is made, there's literally no way to mess it up. That's why I think an analog stick that goes up should always generate higher values sent to the console and a fully tilted analog stick should make the actor move at its full speed.
Why I think sensitivity mods to the analog stick (basically the whole thing this topic is about) should be allowed: the sensitivity of analog sticks differ between controllers. The analog stick sensitivity also changes when the controller is getting older or often used. I have a few GameCube controllers and one of them is a lot more sensitive and I'm actually able to angle change fairly consistently with it without an adapter. I believe there are also certain Classic Controllers that allow for better angle changing. Getting controllers with these characteristics is pretty much luck, so it would be nice not having to worry about it.
Also, the N64 analog stick is very different from a GameCube adapter. Even with the Raphnet adapter, without my mods holding ESS is considerably easier with it than on a GameCube controller. The Raphnet adapter actually also does stuff to the sensitivity of the controller, it even has a few settings. If this really is an issue, playing with an N64 controller should have already been banned back then. I can see why it never really was a debate though, the community was obviously a lot smaller and less serious back then.
QuoteA button may not generate an analog stick value.
This one is quite obvious to me. Imagine mapping a button to a ESS analog stick value, this would give extremely easy ESS. Or having a button that generates the perfect angle for super swims in TWW. It deviates way too much from a normal controller functionality.
So yeah, this is basically my view on this whole thing. It's really hard to judge this and maybe rules should also differ per game. When I started working on this adaper I asked some people on SDA their views on whether it's OK to use an adapter to play with a different controller and the general answer was "as long as it stays within the same technical capabilities", or something like that. I think these rules suit this statement pretty good: buttons stay buttons, analog sticks stay analog sticks, analog sticks can have a different sensitivity (as long as the max input for the actor is reached when the analog stick is fully tilted).
Sorry for the long post. :P
Last edited 22 Nov 2013, 22:12 by whyieyesya.
Are you allowed to use both the GC controller and the Classic Controller (pro) at the same time? You can do this on VC if you have a GC controller plugged in, but any input on the classic controller will cancel any analogue input on the GC controller, so you never have conflicting analogue inputs. You could still mash A and B on both controllers though LOL
Are you allowed to use both the GC controller and the Classic Controller (pro) at the same time? You can do this on VC if you have a GC controller plugged in, but any input on the classic controller will cancel any analogue input on the GC controller, so you never have conflicting analogue inputs. You could still mash A and B on both controllers though LOL
I'd say it is allowed, if the system is capable of it. Obviously if it would introduce something really gamebreaking you could make categories that ban it.
I have all PCBs soldered, except for the programming connectors, because I had to order these. I accidentally made them ship these to my old address, so I can only get them this weekend. Next week I'll probably have the adapters ready.
GC firmware is also finished, just doing some testing at the moment.
GC firmware is also finished, just doing some testing at the moment.
mine arrived just now, havent thorougly tested it yet. to program the board im assuming i just pop the lid off and directly stick the connector into the obvious place on the pcb?
mine arrived just now, havent thorougly tested it yet. to program the board im assuming i just pop the lid off and directly stick the connector into the obvious place on the pcb?
Yeah, but you need to put it on correctly. I have no idea what happens if you do it wrong. I'll post a pic how you should do it later.
So I guess I feel obligated to post impressions since I'm the first to receive the GC version (I think).
I've played with it about 6 hours now. I sorta cheated since I've screwed around with the raphnet GC->N64 adapter before, which has pretty good sensitivity. Obviously, ess is easy. Angle-changing feels really nice. Before I received it I was concerned because I'd somewhat gotten used to the other adapter and wanted it to be similar to make the transition to 100% seamless, but it feels close so I probably won't worry about that. General movement feels weird, but I can get used to it. The finer angles I'm used to just don't work (which is to be expected), but I'm getting used to it and I think I will prefer this in the end because you have more control over smaller adjustments; pretty much the same deal with first-person control too. Also, it might just be me, but I think quickspinning is a little harder with the adapter (lol).
All that being said I was getting used to it pretty quick (though I did cheat), and PB'd in MST during that period. I don't think the adapter has anything to do with enabling the PB, but the confidence that you will never screw up wess is pretty nice. Although I think that unless you want the adapter for something specific like angle-changing (which I do), the main benefit of using it will be overall nicer-feeling controls, not the easier ess.
I've played with it about 6 hours now. I sorta cheated since I've screwed around with the raphnet GC->N64 adapter before, which has pretty good sensitivity. Obviously, ess is easy. Angle-changing feels really nice. Before I received it I was concerned because I'd somewhat gotten used to the other adapter and wanted it to be similar to make the transition to 100% seamless, but it feels close so I probably won't worry about that. General movement feels weird, but I can get used to it. The finer angles I'm used to just don't work (which is to be expected), but I'm getting used to it and I think I will prefer this in the end because you have more control over smaller adjustments; pretty much the same deal with first-person control too. Also, it might just be me, but I think quickspinning is a little harder with the adapter (lol).
All that being said I was getting used to it pretty quick (though I did cheat), and PB'd in MST during that period. I don't think the adapter has anything to do with enabling the PB, but the confidence that you will never screw up wess is pretty nice. Although I think that unless you want the adapter for something specific like angle-changing (which I do), the main benefit of using it will be overall nicer-feeling controls, not the easier ess.
I have finished a few adapters and will finish the rest tomorrow. After that I'll contact everyone for payment and shipping etc. I'll test the adapters over the weekend and ship them early next week.
I have made an N64 firmware that has OoT, MM, Master Quest and Super Mario 64 mappings + 2 general mappings (with these it's like the Raphnet adapter), so that's what people will get. The GC version has mappings for OoT, MM and Master Quest.
I have made an N64 firmware that has OoT, MM, Master Quest and Super Mario 64 mappings + 2 general mappings (with these it's like the Raphnet adapter), so that's what people will get. The GC version has mappings for OoT, MM and Master Quest.