VC Control Stick Mapping

whyieyesya wrote

I have finished a few adapters and will finish the rest tomorrow. After that I'll contact everyone for payment and shipping etc. I'll test the adapters over the weekend and ship them early next week.

I have made an N64 firmware that has OoT, MM, Master Quest and Super Mario 64 mappings + 2 general mappings (with these it's like the Raphnet adapter), so that's what people will get. The GC version has mappings for OoT, MM and Master Quest.

sweet

Sounds good! Can't wait to try this out!

I should have contacted everyone that messaged me they want to buy an adapter.

I'm gonna make a webpage with info (selecting mappings, updating it, etc.) about the adapters later. I'll also post firmware updates on there.

I'm out of microcontrollers and cases at the moment, but they should arrive soon. So if you decide to place an order right now, you'll have to wait a bit again.  :P

ok i replied

Hopefully people will start receiving these new adapters soon. I haven't explained how to select the mappings yet.

For the N64 version, hold the corresponding button when plugging in the adapter (in a Wii that's on obviously) to get the corresponding mapping:
D-UP: OoT VC
D-Down: MM VC
D-Right: OoT and MM GC
D-Left: SM64 VC

For the GC version:
D-UP: OoT VC
D-Down: MM VC
D-Right: OoT and MM GC

There's also settings for the triggers for the GC version, by holding L and a corresponding button:
L + D-UP: No modification at all, just one on one conversion.
L + D-Right: VC like triggers in OoT and MM GC
L + D-Down: OoT and MM GC like triggers in VC

I can't speak for all of the mappings, but for OoT anyway, this is really amazing. I've always been extremely picky about the joystick and I cannot even tell the difference. Really great work on this whyieyesya!

Runnerguy2489 wrote

I can't speak for all of the mappings, but for OoT anyway, this is really amazing. I've always been extremely picky about the joystick and I cannot even tell the difference. Really great work on this whyieyesya!

That's really good to hear! Thanks!

I may have opened up a can of worms by doing this, but I decided to finally bring these adapters up formally at SDA. In the past, I kind of beat around the bush a bit, and since I'm having serious thoughts about running MM again, I felt like I should bring it up again and be as honest, clear, and direct as possible about what these adapters really do and what possible advantages they might have. The topic is here. I know a lot of people here don't care about SDA anymore, but I'd appreciate it if you guys took the time to weigh in, since ZSR obviously allows the adapter and the adapter was primarily made for the N64 zeldas.

ING-X wrote

I may have opened up a can of worms by doing this, but I decided to finally bring these adapters up formally at SDA. In the past, I kind of beat around the bush a bit, and since I'm having serious thoughts about running MM again, I felt like I should bring it up again and be as honest, clear, and direct as possible about what these adapters really do and what possible advantages they might have. The topic is here. I know a lot of people here don't care about SDA anymore, but I'd appreciate it if you guys took the time to weigh in, since ZSR obviously allows the adapter and the adapter was primarily made for the N64 zeldas.

I actually think this is pretty interesting. I'd hate it if my adapters would ruin the fun of people that don't use an adapter (maybe that's also one of the reasons I made a GC version).

Quote from the thread:

Quote

As long as it doesn't let you do anything that wouldn't be possible with a stock controller then I don't think it's an issue.

This is of course a tough one. There's only a handful of people that can actually somewhat consistently angle change on VC with a GC controller.

wonderful!!!

A+++++

u my nigga

This shouldn't affect most of you anyway, since most people in the Zelda/Mario communities don't really care much about SDA anymore anyway. So don't yell at me for this; you guys can still use the adapter regardless of what SDA says.

I'm glad you posted that SDA thread and it seems cool that people are in agreement about these adapters being zsr/sda legal.

Cosmo wrote

I'm glad you posted that SDA thread and it seems cool that people are in agreement about these adapters being zsr/sda legal.

Just wondering, what is your take on the adapters? You're basically modifying data supposed to be sent to your console. Why are you cool (I believe that's the case) with them?

The N64 version might be a little easier to defend, because you already have to multiply the analog stick's values, because a GC analog stick has a higher reach.

I'd say the N64 adapter can be defended by the fact that we know how the games are supposed to feel on N64 and the adapter doesn't do anything else than make it feel like on N64. The GC version is then simply allowed imo, because the N64 version is allowed and it doesn't have any advantages over the N64 version.

Then again, how would an adapter like this, be looked at, if there's only one version of the game, so no reference as to how the control stick could/should feel?

The way I see it, third party controllers are already allowed as long as they don't add new features, like turbo buttons. Third party analog sticks are rarely identical to the originals. This sets a pretty good precedent for allowing third party adapters as long as they abide by the same restriction of not adding new features.

There were some problems with the GC to GC adapters previously (no calibration, player would not run at full speed). Because of those problems and limited time on my side, I stopped selling the GC to GC version until I fixed those. I'm pretty sure now, all these issues are resolved (it also has an SM64 mapping now), so I have resumed selling the GC to GC version again. I had some people that were interested in this version and I think I messaged all of them. In case I forgot to send anyone a message, please send me a message. If you have one of the older GC versions, I have a guide how to update your adapter, so just ask me for it. You also need an ISP programmer, but you can get those for 3$ from eBay.

At the moment I'm going to try to improve the MM mapping. It's quite good, but there are some small problems with it. Once I'm done with that, this means both the N64 as well as the GC version will get an update.

I'm also working on a Classic Controller version. This one will also just plug into the Gamecube port. I have a working version at the moment, but I want to try to improve MM first.

Edit: here are updated instructions for the latest GC firmware:
Hold the corresponding button when plugging in the adapter (in a Wii that's on obviously) to get the corresponding mapping:

For the GC version:
D-UP: OoT VC
D-Down: MM VC
D-Right: OoT and MM GC
D-Left: SM64 (this one is newly added)

There's also settings for the triggers for the GC version, by holding L and a corresponding button:
L + D-UP: No modification at all, just one on one conversion.
L + D-Right: VC like triggers in OoT and MM GC
L + D-Down: OoT and MM GC like triggers in VC

Do we need to select which setting to use every time we plug in the adapter? Or will it "remember" the last chosen profile?

Saltor wrote

Do we need to select which setting to use every time we plug in the adapter? Or will it "remember" the last chosen profile?

It remembers.  :)

awesome ^_^ really looking forward to it :D
as far as I understood you sell them again...? can I PM you about that again? :D

i also ordered one last week.
should arrive within the next two days.

let's see if it's improved since early 2013 :^]

thiefbug wrote

awesome ^_^ really looking forward to it :D
as far as I understood you sell them again...? can I PM you about that again? :D

I do sell them again, but I haven't improved MM yet. Some people don't really care about MM, so then I might as well sell it.

I'm making some progress on MM. I also tried MM on the N64 and some of the problems of which I thought were caused by my adapter, also exist on N64. For instance, if you look with around with C-up and you want to move straight left or right, the camera has the tendency to also move up. That seems to be because of a very small deadzone MM has (even though ESS deadzone is bigger than OoT). This is only during C-up, not during aiming with bow or hookshot. Also, turning 90 degrees seems harder with MM than OoT (also on N64). Of course I could add a small deadzone, but the goal is to keep the controls as similar as possible.

we don't line up with c-up thaat often so it shouldn't really matter.
and for the turning we'd still have shieldturning in case you don't want to add a deadzone there ^^

anyway - I really look forward to it :D

thiefbug wrote

we don't line up with c-up thaat often so it shouldn't really matter.
and for the turning we'd still have shieldturning in case you don't want to add a deadzone there ^^

anyway - I really look forward to it :D

Lining up with c-up is probably still a lot better than it is now.

I'm trying shield turning right now on N64. It seems that turning 90 degrees is really hard. I line up with a wall, then I do the shield turn and I then walk straight with my camera locked. Sometimes Link won't stick to the wall. This could mean two things: the shield turn isn't exactly 90 degrees or I'm not walking completely straight. The deadzone is really small when walking forward (with camera locked) or backwards, so that could explain the not walking straight.

Maybe I'm doing the shield turn wrong. Right now I hold shield, I then pull my analog stick left or right and quickly release R and press it again.

Now that I'm comparing N64 with VC I think my N64 to GC adapter is really accurate. Are there people that run MM on N64? Because I wonder if they have the same problems. I can only conclude right now that the N64 controls also have some flaws and I'm not sure how it would affect speedrunning. For OoT it would be unacceptable for a lot of setups.

well, we need 90° turns for some setups :/ (just realized for stonetower or woodfall for example)

I can ask DennisBalow is this problem also exists on N64... but there's no runner on N64, iirc (Dennis just plays the game casually)
But I remember that things like backwalking were really hard / stupid to do on N64 myself...

I don't know if it would be allowed to fix it a little...? these are no inputs made by the controller / adapter made afterall (we still have to do all the inputs ourselves)

thiefbug wrote

well, we need 90° turns for some setups :/ (just realized for stonetower or woodfall for example)

Is that during hovers? Because those might still work very well.

Quote

I can ask DennisBalow is this problem also exists on N64... but there's no runner on N64, iirc (Dennis just plays the game casually)
But I remember that things like backwalking were really hard / stupid to do on N64 myself...

The more input the better.  :) Allthough as I said, the problem also occurs on N64 for me. Just wondering if it is a big problem during speedruns.

Quote

I don't know if it would be allowed to fix it a little...? these are no inputs made by the controller / adapter made afterall (we still have to do all the inputs ourselves)

My ultimate goal is to make the controls just like on N64. With the GC adapter I don't really mind adding some deadzone/maybe fixing it in a different way. MM wasn't meant to be played with a GC controller anyways, so I might as well modify the controls to make it better playable.

aaah okay, I'm still gonna ask him tho.
uhm, no the turns are on the ground in order to get the right angle for longjumps / bk skips :/

but it'd be really awesome if you could fix it a little then :D

thiefbug wrote

aaah okay, I'm still gonna ask him tho.
uhm, no the turns are on the ground in order to get the right angle for longjumps / bk skips :/

but it'd be really awesome if you could fix it a little then :D

I'll look into it.

I'm just really curious how runners on N64 cope with it. I hope I'm doing something wrong. :P

the last runner on N64 was ingx...?
his run didn't use any ground / shieldturns, iirc...
but that was from 2012 anyway :/

The things you describe are all normal on n64. Backwalking/walking straight forward and turning 90/180 are difficult, but not impossible to get used to so I think you should make it as close to n64 as possible and not add a deadzone, but that is just my opinion

losing runs to not being able to move straight forward is a little sad... especially when being on low health it has to be fun.
so I'll buy it and then decide wether to use it or not x)

Steve wrote

The things you describe are all normal on n64. Backwalking/walking straight forward and turning 90/180 are difficult, but not impossible to get used to so I think you should make it as close to n64 as possible and not add a deadzone, but that is just my opinion

The biggest problem is that, considering it is already hard on N64, that if my mapping is only slightly off, it may be harder than on N64. The mapping for MM is a lot more complicated than the other games.

What I think I will do is experiment with deadzone. If that works good, I'll make it so you can enable and disable it. The added deadzone actually also sucks, because that will make ESS harder again.