Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions

threads for that already exist in editors discussion  http://forums.zeldaspeedruns.com/index.php?board=26.0

It's been thought, we should rename Jumpslash Cancel to either JumpAttack Landing Cancel or Landing Cancel since you're just canceling the landing of a jump slash and Mask Jump to JumpAttack Cancel or JumpSlash Cancel since you're canceling the Jump Attack in midair.
What do you guys think?

BigHairyFart wrote

Do bubbles still give 50R when killed via light arrow?

i used the bubbles to farm the 5000 rupees like the 2005 100% run but ben's strat is slightly faster since there's a lot more Eenos.

Hey, I'm kinda new and was recently messing around with the game after beating it. Before I new about how Bottle Adventure worked in this game compared to OoT, I was convinced that the inclusion of the Fishing Hole would break the game, so I did some extensive tests on that, and also messed around with RI, mainly with FD. I found out a few things that have and haven't been mentioned here. First, the fishing hole. I escaped the hole using SoS, which is known, and discovered that reentering the hole resets your standard B, and that the forms each have standard and secondary B actions based on their status. Entering maps other than the hole keep the Rod. I also discovered that the Blacksmith reads from your B button rather than from the gear menu, since he gave Human Link the alternate form text. This makes me wonder what would happen if you somehow got Kokiri again after upgrading, then trying to upgrade again. I also discovered that FD actually shares the B button with Link, since changing to him with B Rod changed B to the FD sword, then back to the normal sword. I really want to see weird B with FD, but you can only use the Pictobox, which can't be used midair. I also "found" the Bottle on B via Deku Sword (before I came here) and encountered the first cycle glitch, so I put the Ocarina on B to see what had happened and found all of the songs still intact. By the way, is the Deku Sword the GF sword, or a normal sword with bugged damage values? While messing around with FD, I humorously found him unable to climb ladders. He doesn't crash, but ladder climbing sounds play while FD stares at the ladder, contemplating how ladders are supposed to work and how to use them. Also, I noticed the descriptions for BA masks saying that some worked similar to the Gibdo's mask, but do they have the same warps? Also, is it possible to use ocarina items or some other method to interrupt the Blue Warp to activate a wrong warp? I want to find a way to potentially go straight to the moon, similar to OoT. If not, I want to find a way to manipulate gear values in the gear menu. That's why I want to upgrade to Gilded twice, to see what would happen. That's all, really. May not be helpful, but just want to put it out there.

I was messing around in Pirates' Fortress today, when I realized the main area with the tower can be completed much quicker. We've been using Zora to take out the Gerudo but if you do the area as Goron its much faster. The only hard part about it is getting the Gerudo in front of the tower but I figured out a way to do it quick.

All you do is roll to this spot;

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then wait for the Gerudo to start walking to the right like in the picture, then quickly roll behind her and punch her. Then the Gerudo on the bridge can be rolled up to and punched.

I timed this just to be sure and it ended up being 6-7 seconds faster then when Zora.

TopazPhoenix wrote

Hey, I'm kinda new and was recently messing around with the game after beating it. Before I new about how Bottle Adventure worked in this game compared to OoT, I was convinced that the inclusion of the Fishing Hole would break the game, so I did some extensive tests on that, and also messed around with RI, mainly with FD. I found out a few things that have and haven't been mentioned here. First, the fishing hole. I escaped the hole using SoS, which is known, and discovered that reentering the hole resets your standard B, and that the forms each have standard and secondary B actions based on their status. Entering maps other than the hole keep the Rod. I also discovered that the Blacksmith reads from your B button rather than from the gear menu, since he gave Human Link the alternate form text. This makes me wonder what would happen if you somehow got Kokiri again after upgrading, then trying to upgrade again. I also discovered that FD actually shares the B button with Link, since changing to him with B Rod changed B to the FD sword, then back to the normal sword. I really want to see weird B with FD, but you can only use the Pictobox, which can't be used midair. I also "found" the Bottle on B via Deku Sword (before I came here) and encountered the first cycle glitch, so I put the Ocarina on B to see what had happened and found all of the songs still intact. By the way, is the Deku Sword the GF sword, or a normal sword with bugged damage values? While messing around with FD, I humorously found him unable to climb ladders. He doesn't crash, but ladder climbing sounds play while FD stares at the ladder, contemplating how ladders are supposed to work and how to use them. Also, I noticed the descriptions for BA masks saying that some worked similar to the Gibdo's mask, but do they have the same warps? Also, is it possible to use ocarina items or some other method to interrupt the Blue Warp to activate a wrong warp? I want to find a way to potentially go straight to the moon, similar to OoT. If not, I want to find a way to manipulate gear values in the gear menu. That's why I want to upgrade to Gilded twice, to see what would happen. That's all, really. May not be helpful, but just want to put it out there.

RBA in MM3D would be a great discovery. I also want a system similar to BA in OoT that configures the B button. I wanna try putting Zora Fins on Human's B, or Goron Punch on Human's B. Changing FD Link's value would be cool too.

Don't know if its known by everyone, but I wanted to make this clear.
Like in OoT3d, you can't auto-roll from a full jump. That ability instead gets passed on to Goron Link which I find a very stupid move on Grezzo's part.

However, you can still do a sort of psuedo-autoroll. If you jump and press A right before Link touches the ground, you will roll (or spin as Deku) with max speed, eliminating the landing lag. You'll know you got it if Link rolls in the same direction he faces when he jumps and (as Deku) the spin has no startup. Note: Deku can do this after a sidehop as well. Just don't forget to untarget before you press A.

For example, at the very beginning of the game in the forest, you can do this on the 3rd, 4th, and 5th jump to get across the platforms a bit faster. Be careful about the direction you're facing before the 3rd jump because Link can't move freely in a roll (like in TP and SS). For practice, I suggest being in South Clock Town and jump off the sides of Clock Tower since they're easily accessible. You can practice sidehop spinning as Deku here too on the slopes and on flat surface. I've managed to get the timing down pretty consistently since I've got a good feel for it (I get it 9/10 times).

Video to come soon.

I went back and started doing crap with the jump slash cancel stuff when an idea randomly blew into my mind, i tested for like 7 minutes and found out that it's actually possible, if you go into your mask inventory right when you perform a jump slash cancel (mask jump) (1 or 2 frames after i guess?) and put away the mask you used, after the canceling of the jump slash you still have control of Link.meaning you can still perform another normal jump slash or whatever else. Both human link and zora get this thing, as if taking out tthe mask a frame after makes link not go into "cutscene mode"

If TAS was possible this could easily be done making this a sort-of-type "zombie hover" in MM3D.

Concept video of what im rambling about: https://youtu.be/aS6WQc8Kt_U (excluding the crash and you don't have to jump slash right away after the first one)

gabyelnuevo wrote

I went back and started doing crap with the jump slash cancel stuff when an idea randomly blew into my mind, i tested for like 7 minutes and found out that it's actually possible, if you go into your mask inventory right when you perform a jump slash cancel (mask jump) (1 or 2 frames after i guess?) and put away the mask you used, after the canceling of the jump slash you still have control of Link.meaning you can still perform another normal jump slash or whatever else. Both human link and zora get this thing, as if taking out tthe mask a frame after makes link not go into "cutscene mode"

If TAS was possible this could easily be done making this a sort-of-type "zombie hover" in MM3D.

Concept video of what im rambling about: https://youtu.be/aS6WQc8Kt_U (excluding the crash and you don't have to jump slash right away after the first one)

Woah, nice! That would be an awesome trick to see in a TAS

Do you know why it crashed though?

gabyelnuevo wrote

I went back and started doing crap with the jump slash cancel stuff when an idea randomly blew into my mind, i tested for like 7 minutes and found out that it's actually possible, if you go into your mask inventory right when you perform a jump slash cancel (mask jump) (1 or 2 frames after i guess?) and put away the mask you used, after the canceling of the jump slash you still have control of Link.meaning you can still perform another normal jump slash or whatever else. Both human link and zora get this thing, as if taking out tthe mask a frame after makes link not go into "cutscene mode"

If TAS was possible this could easily be done making this a sort-of-type "zombie hover" in MM3D.

Concept video of what im rambling about: https://youtu.be/aS6WQc8Kt_U (excluding the crash and you don't have to jump slash right away after the first one)

Like the MM jump slash cancel hover thing MrGrunz (or GnS?) cant remember who did back few years ago on MM64. So maybe hovering that way would be usefull in a TAS of mm3d. But for us... not much use for it. Your theory doesn't seem to work if it crashes the game. Maybe it's like a HESS crash from a wrong input button/cursor. Try it again without holding an input longer than 1-2frame for the 2nd slash cancel/mask jump.

Masterluigisw wrote

Like the MM jump slash cancel hover thing MrGrunz (or GnS?) cant remember who did back few years ago on MM64. So maybe hovering that way would be usefull in a TAS of mm3d. But for us... not much use for it. Your theory doesn't seem to work if it crashes the game. Maybe it's like a HESS crash from a wrong input button/cursor. Try it again without holding an input longer than 1-2frame for the 2nd slash cancel/mask jump.

The times I've done this it didn't crash but it did in the vid, because it has the same effects like the action swap extra jump one (it was by GaS, not Grunz :P) it crashes because the is suppose to be a "back slash" animation Link does in MM64 (https://youtu.be/Ppa3yJUO6OY)  that i imagine it got removed in MM3D and since the game doesn't find the animation it simply crashes, you can easily avoid the crash just by pulling another item and jump slash again (which is what TAS could do to make the other Jumpslash Cancel).

In short, the crash doesn't have anything to do with the actual "hovering" :P (hope you guys know by now my English is not that great so i may write things wrong or confusing sometimes)

Weegeechan wrote

Woah, nice! That would be an awesome trick to see in a TAS

Do you know why it crashed though?

Jump slash animation crashes after mask cancel; we saw this when we did these sort of jumps the old way in this game via action swap. Also, after testing, I've found that zora JS doesn't crash if you do it far enough from the ground, so no crash failure worries. Maybe Link's is the same way?

I don't think this is tas only, but there will be lots of buffering. What I've been doing is as Zora Link buffering home with thumb + b with middle while holding the item button with my index, holding item button + goron or deku mask button, pressing home, then releasing everything for a frame. pull out bottle, rinse repeat hopefully without messing up the timing on home+ b + item for the 4 - 5 times you need to reach the height you need. However, getting the bottle out in time is really hard, and I'm struggling not to lose height.
If we get this consistent, we'll be able to skip epona and probably hookshot at the very least, and have a way to bk skip for STT; this is probably enough for sub-MM2D on its own.

This is what I was talking about before: http://youtu.be/HnNO78yCt9g
Hope it makes more sense.
Also, I think this is as fast as the jumping part in the beginning can get: http://youtu.be/2BTL2wxwNUU

Madmonk12345 wrote

Jump slash animation crashes after mask cancel; we saw this when we did these sort of jumps the old way in this game via action swap. Also, after testing, I've found that zora JS doesn't crash if you do it far enough from the ground, so no crash failure worries. Maybe Link's is the same way?

I don't think this is tas only, but there will be lots of buffering. What I've been doing is as Zora Link buffering home with thumb + b with middle while holding the item button with my index, holding item button + goron or deku mask button, pressing home, then releasing everything for a frame. pull out bottle, rinse repeat hopefully without messing up the timing on home+ b + item for the 4 - 5 times you need to reach the height you need. However, getting the bottle out in time is really hard, and I'm struggling not to lose height.
If we get this consistent, we'll be able to skip epona and probably hookshot at the very least, and have a way to bk skip for STT; this is probably enough for sub-MM2D on its own.

If Bk skip in STT is possible, I can see it being much a run ender. U can end up either screwing it up and voiding out or crash the game. Either way, looks like we'll be grinding STT a lot more from now on.
Mask jump to skip epona and hookshot? Ehhhhhh..... Well, for one, there's no way we're skipping epona because we need her for a warp and climbing ST would be a pain in the butt. And those 5 minutes supposebly saved from skipping hookshot would probably dwindle down since mask jumping is pretty slow.

I discovered a way to do the Deku Palace maze quicker!

First off, that first deku in the maze can be walked by easily. I don't know why we've been waiting lol:

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Then the door frame that we backflip on with Zora can also be backflipped on by Deku. Furthermore, you can then backflip onto the platform with the deku flower for a quicker way of doing that section.

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Then you can also get on the end platform even quicker:

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As shown in the picture above, wait until the platform gets to about that spot, the fly out towards the platform and you'll pop up on top.

I forgot, I also found an "Impossible Rupee" similar to the "Impossible Coin" in Super Mario 64.

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Thought this was neat because it's completely OoB for some reason. Makes me wonder if it's in the original MM? Is it even known about actually?

Powerstar9 wrote

This is what I was talking about before: http://youtu.be/HnNO78yCt9g
Hope it makes more sense.
Also, I think this is as fast as the jumping part in the beginning can get: http://youtu.be/2BTL2wxwNUUIf Bk skip in STT is possible, I can see it being much a run ender. U can end up either screwing it up and voiding out or crash the game. Either way, looks like we'll be grinding STT a lot more from now on.
Mask jump to skip epona and hookshot? Ehhhhhh..... Well, for one, there's no way we're skipping epona because we need her for a warp and climbing ST would be a pain in the butt. And those 5 minutes supposebly saved from skipping hookshot would probably dwindle down since mask jumping is pretty slow.

When I was talking about skipping Epona, I was saying that with jump slash cancel hovering we'd find some alternate clip into milk bar; arbitrary height and distance travel solves a lot of issues with it IIRC.

Also, hook shot skip is made a bit more viable because we could take fairy fountain alt exit to ikana. Hookshot skip's much less viable than epona skip I grant you.

Madmonk12345 wrote

When I was talking about skipping Epona, I was saying that with jump slash cancel hovering we'd find some alternate clip into milk bar; arbitrary height and distance travel solves a lot of issues with it IIRC.

For milk bar clip, It seems possible if we find a corner to triple slash in that faces the loading zone, but we'd need the time to be 2 or 3 AM to get in. Remember that we can't change direction of the jumpslash in midair.

We could maybe do a grunz clip with an actor and then do this, old jumpslash would be facing the right direction.
I feel like this could also have potential for goron mask skip.

benstephens1000 wrote

We could maybe do a grunz clip with an actor and then do this, old jumpslash would be facing the right direction.
I feel like this could also have potential for goron mask skip.

I don't think Goht without goron mask is possible though. Epona skip would be usefull... I'm sure there's a way to zora clip in there.

I found a way to do the main Woodfall area faster. You can turn into Zora and swim across the swamp, hookshot the chest near the owl statue, then Long Jump to the platform.

I made a video for it so that it's easier to know the setup and where to swim to. There's quite a large area of water where there is no poison for some reason  :-\

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-dnSYZh2ec

EDIT: You can also swim up to the owl platform, the change into Goron and pound up to lock onto the owl statue, save, then reload your file. This is probably slower and it might not even be doable with 3 hearts but w/e

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Hey, I don't know if this is the right place to put this but I have found a crash glitch. Thought this would help in-case a speedrunner does this. If you are in northern clock town and enter the deku playground just as the bomb cut-scene starts it will 'soft' crash. You will see the scene but instead of entering the hole you will just hover there as the text "Ouch! Watch where you're going!" stays on the screen. The normal sounds (bomber kid walking around and shooting the balloon and the crickets) play but you cannot do anything.

Well, I found a few things today. The first thing I think is pretty sick and I hope there can be a use for it somewhere.

I call it Chain Bombing because what it does is allow Link to explode Bombs one after the other without stopping (as long as your timing is right). What you do is:

1. Shield drop a bomb
2. Shield crouch until the bomb explodes
3. As soon as the bomb hits your shield, almost instantly shield drop another bomb
4. The bomb will explode and then another bomb can be dropped and shielded
5. Repeat to keep exploding bomb after bomb.

I made a video of it too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ox7Qe371pO8&feature=youtu.be

The other trick I found is a form of Mask Storage that has some clipping potential.

With the Hookshot, go into first person, get right up to a hookshot-able surface (not always necessary) and aim as far up the surface as you can. Fire the hookshot and almost immediately put on a mask right after. I only tested it on torches, but Link will always fly towards the object and clip through it. He'll then put on whatever mask you stored.

I think "chain bombing" was already known from mm64 because it was one of the ways to get your health down to a certain amount. Used to be helpful for great bay bk skip on 64

Powerstar9 wrote

I think "chain bombing" was already known from mm64 because it was one of the ways to get your health down to a certain amount. Used to be helpful for great bay bk skip on 64

Huh, interesting! Well at least there's a vid of it now for MM3D. I guess it could still be used at some point down the line. Who knows  :P

Weegeechan wrote

Huh, interesting! Well at least there's a vid of it now for MM3D. I guess it could still be used at some point down the line. Who knows  :P

It looks like it could be useful for something, but it's a HUGE waste of bombs. I dunno, time will tell.

After some testing of consecutive mask jumps, I think I have some bad news. I'm pretty sure it can't be used to gain height at all. The time it takes between link pulling out the bottle and the frame he becomes able to do a jump slash is too long, and he loses too much height.

This doesn't mean it can't be used for skips; it just means it's restricted to horizontal distance travel, which should still be enough to skip epona and probably do STT boss key skip but not enough to do fairy fountain alt exit.

More testing needs to be done though. You can't really home buffer when unpausing from the item menu because a certain frame softlocks the game, meaning I couldn't perfectly test it. Either way, the vertical distance gained is tiny if it exists at all, meaning using it for that purpose is out of the question, even for TAS given how long it would take.

Btw, how are we going to get into milk bar with mask jump? i'm thinking we can ledge clip on the wall next to the east clock town guard and Mask jump there, but i'm not so sure.

Thanks to PlayMyLife, who figured out how to keep Link's arms raised during getting hit with a bomb, to perform Bomb OI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHeHJiDtc8M

Bomb OI Confirmed to still work :P

It's possible to navigate the Song of Soaring menu a bit faster.
After you play it, as soon as the text box for it disappears you can start pressing towards the point you want to warp to before the map comes up.
Example, you want to warp to stone tower, as soon as the text box disappears, you press right twice before the map appears and mash A to get through the prompts. Saves ~0.5 seconds.

Alternate Moon Tear Skip
I used to do it on MM64 as a kid before i saw Gainers being done nowadays
https://youtu.be/DO0YUWxCbBk