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Did extensives tests with kamaro BA... some new stuff:

Infinite day change until moon crash
(It also made Spring mountain village into Winter mountain village).

infinite fire arrow... you can move arround by holding L target and shield. Death cancels the effects.

Masterluigisw wrote

Did extensives tests with kamaro BA... some new stuff:

Infinite day change until moon crash
(It also made Spring mountain village into Winter mountain village).

infinite fire arrow... you can move arround by holding L target and shield. Death cancels the effects.

Yeah, pretty much Great Fairy Sword, fire arrows, ocarina and drinking chateu romani are confirmed to happened, never got fire arrows after the first time it happened lol https://youtu.be/PzLzzQoEt0w

Do you think is like Gibdo's? Using a timer or something to make stuff happen?

gabyelnuevo wrote

Yeah, pretty much Great Fairy Sword, fire arrows, ocarina and drinking chateu romani are confirmed to happened, never got fire arrows after the first time it happened lol https://youtu.be/PzLzzQoEt0w

Do you think is like Gibdo's? Using a timer or something to make stuff happen?

Oh yah, drinking bottle... got that too lol. Did this shit for 3 hours. But the most common one is the infinite ocarina. The rarest ones seem to be Infinite Day Change and Infinite fire arrow. Only got those once too...

I also once got link with Goron mask effect. And few times the Fairy mask quick on/off.

I actually tried to mess with time, I tried to mess with my item equips... I tried to mess with how you exist grotto (jumpslash, backflip etc.), I tried the 2 HSW grottos and I didn't find any consistency whatsoever. It really seems to write memory adresses randomly. So everytime you exit grotto you're like "ok wtf will happen now" lol.

So these are all the effects known to date of Kamaro BA:

Infinite Ocarina
Infinite GFS
Infinite Fire Arrow
Infinite Romani Bottle Drink
Infinite Day Change
Goron Mask on Link
Great Fairy Mask quick on/off
Game crash

Can someone clarify what you guys mean by "infinite?" same animation (softlock), infinite ammo... What?

Hi guys! I was wondering if anybody had written a detailed guide on Action Swap (Fire arrow with Deku Stick) Glitch. This is a really neat glitch and I am seeing the top speedrunners for MM3D Any% do it multiple times on the run. There are very few tricks that I have yet to master until I can start fully running the game, and I am guessing I am not the only one that wants to learn Action Swap. So please let me know how this trick works!!

Thank you :D

Z

There are 2 useful ways to trigger action swap in any%:

1) Pull out your bow and draw an arrow in first-person mode. With the arrow still drawn, press stick and then press Tatl 1 frame later. If you set an alarm, you can get a Tatl dialog anytime you want.
- Used in Woodfall temple to light the torch (Tatl wants to talk to you in this room, so you can leverage that)
- Used to unfreeze Goht via Tatl alarm

2) Have the bow in your hand. You can do this easily by aiming with the bow and then blocking. Then go up to an NPC and hold R. While holding R, press stick and then talk to the NPC 1 frame later.
- Used in mountain area to get action swap from Tingle.

Then, once you have action swap through one of the above methods, pull out your bow in first person (but don't draw an arrow). Then hold L, press the stick button, and release the stick button. You will shoot a flaming arrow.

Powerstar9 wrote

Can someone clarify what you guys mean by "infinite?" same animation (softlock), infinite ammo... What?

We mean infinite draw/cycles. It's a cycle you cannot get out of (at least as of what we know of today).

The infinite fire arrow is basically link drawing out a fire arrow infinitly. (you cannot shoot it).

Zyxeos wrote

Hi guys! I was wondering if anybody had written a detailed guide on Action Swap (Fire arrow with Deku Stick) Glitch. This is a really neat glitch and I am seeing the top speedrunners for MM3D Any% do it multiple times on the run. There are very few tricks that I have yet to master until I can start fully running the game, and I am guessing I am not the only one that wants to learn Action Swap. So please let me know how this trick works!!

Thank you :D

Z

You are probably not holding L while trying it.

Press start button -> circle pad to right -> press the Talt alarm button -> Set talt alarm -> SoDT to the time of Alarm -> equip hookshot + stick on X-Y -> put hookshot in first person -> Press stick + fast the right D pad input (if you hear the putaway sound you while talt text comes up you did it right). Press Stick + press L target (You have a few frames only). Or you can press L before and after the stick button so it's not frame perfect.

Also someone should put Action Swap in the tricks section and what it's usefull for (Melt Goht, Melt grotto ice blocks, alternative to Mountain Early)

Masterluigisw wrote

We mean infinite draw/cycles. It's a cycle you cannot get out of (at least as of what we know of today).

The infinite fire arrow is basically link drawing out a fire arrow infinitly. (you cannot shoot it).

You are probably not holding L while trying it.

Press start button -> circle pad to left -> press the Talt alarm button -> Set talt alarm -> SoDT to the time of Alarm -> equip hookshot + stick on X-Y -> put hookshot in first person -> Press stick + fast the left D pad input (if you hear the putaway sound you while talt text comes up you did it right). Press Stick + press L target (You have a few frames only). Or you can press L before and after the stick button so it's not frame perfect.

Also someone should put Action Swap in the tricks section and what it's usefull for (Melt Goht, Melt grotto ice blocks, alternative to Mountain Early)

kronspik wrote

There are 2 useful ways to trigger action swap in any%:

1) Pull out your bow and draw an arrow in first-person mode. With the arrow still drawn, press stick and then press Tatl 1 frame later. If you set an alarm, you can get a Tatl dialog anytime you want.
- Used in Woodfall temple to light the torch (Tatl wants to talk to you in this room, so you can leverage that)
- Used to unfreeze Goht via Tatl alarm

2) Have the bow in your hand. You can do this easily by aiming with the bow and then blocking. Then go up to an NPC and hold R. While holding R, press stick and then talk to the NPC 1 frame later.
- Used in mountain area to get action swap from Tingle.

Then, once you have action swap through one of the above methods, pull out your bow in first person (but don't draw an arrow). Then hold L, press the stick button, and release the stick button. You will shoot a flaming arrow.

Thank you guys! I will try that now. I am almost done with learning this run completely. I just need to practice Gibdo clip more because it is tough for me to get the right set-up.

This community rocks socks!

Zyxeos wrote

Thank you guys! I will try that now. I am almost done with learning this run completely. I just need to practice Gibdo clip more because it is tough for me to get the right set-up.

This community rocks socks!

I find it's always easiest with Hookshot on X and not Y since there's less risk of accidentally pressing B or the other item button. You can hold hookshot with the end of your thumb while pressing A with the middle. Practice side-hopping and letting go of the hookshot when you hit the floor. Don't be afraid to let go of hookshot a few frames early. This clip used to be tricky for me too. I grinded it for half an hour straight, and now I'm pretty consistent at both getting it and walking straight into the loading zone aftewards.

Don't get me wrong, I still suck at a lot of stuff. Skull kid cutscene for example.

Video demonstration of consecutive mask jumps(Jump slash cancels?):  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOcf0urrops

Since nothing seems to happen with new discoveries until someone makes a video, I've decided to make a video of my version of the prior TAS only trick, demonstrating it possible semi-consistently even if it's a little slower on console.

It also documents an interesting property of consecutive mask jumps: if the third consecutive mask jump is failed, Zora Link goes into strange alternative animation that continues until link lands on the ground resembling Zora Link holding his fins to shoot them, crashing when it hits the ground. This doesn't apply to any failed mask jump after or before the third, which all generally don't crash unless you are really low to the ground, often even surprising myself to how lenient they are. This different animation might provide something interesting for Deku and regular link, but the trick is much much harder for those two so I haven't tested yet what it will do.

Found these a while ago but forgot to post about them:

This may only be relevant for a TAS, but I found a way to backflip over the desk after listening to granny's stories. Grezzo changed the hitbox of the desk so that it is almost impossible to backflip over without talking to the receptionist. This means it's not possible to backflip easily over the desk like you could in MM64 but I found a very specific spot that Deku can backflip from and get on top of it.

Original imageLoad image Original imageLoad image

You want to stay as close to the door frame as possible and walk up until you see the "speak" prompt. Inch back as little as possible until it disappears. Like in the picture above, backflip at that angle and hold down+left. It might take you a few tries but you'll eventually land on top of the desk. Honestly, it's pretty hard to do and is probably not worth it. But hey, might as well document anything that's faster.

---------

The 2nd thing, which was already known in MM64, is getting the rock sirloin early.

Some of you may know about this, but I feel like it's not as well known as it should be.

What you do is, light a Deku Stick on fire after playing the lullaby, then light one of the torches on the balcony. Take out your bow and shoot an arrow through the fire at the center of the chandelier. This will light up the chandelier without lighting up all the torches.

Original imageLoad image

Powerstar9 wrote

Btw, how are we going to get into milk bar with mask jump? i'm thinking we can ledge clip on the wall next to the east clock town guard and Mask jump there, but i'm not so sure.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=keZ5e8BdntI

If we do this clip, then we should have the correct angle I think. I can't get it working though to test it; I keep getting pushed out of the wall.

Anyone else get this working?

I've done some more testing. The clip is actually pretty easy, and it should only take about 4 - 5 consecutive mask jumps to make it into the loading zone. If we do that, then we can skip Epona.

I haven't tried doing consecutive mask jumps myself, however some people say that doing 3 of them in a row crashes the game

I've been trying the Pictobox method for RI, and for some reason it is just not working for me. Whenever I tap the RI button when going out of the pictobox, it instead just re-enters the pictobox, resetting the item validities.
Is my timing just off?

gymnast86 wrote

I haven't tried doing consecutive mask jumps myself, however some people say that doing 3 of them in a row crashes the game

1. That refers to failing the third mask jump, not completing it. failing any mask jump after that or before that is OK on landing provided you are sufficiently distant from the ground. It is possible to do a mask jump out of that animation, even though it doesn't look like it, and the timing is the same as the second mask jumps before it. I made that last segment of the video specifically to address this belief and didn't upload anything about the setup until I had proof of this, that you could do more than two successful consecutive mask jumps and that that failing the fourth would give the normal jump slash animation unlike the third before it.

I myself was running into a long stretch where I could only do two consecutive mask jumps in a row and then crash failing the third, because the Bottle + b + item button + home button string of inputs is very difficult to do correctly and issues with it are very difficult to diagnose. I've gotten past that though. The best way to practice this is to practice the mask jumps over water; that way you can still continue your practice even if you fail the third mask jump because you will land in water and not crash the game.

2. Doesn't apply when over a void. you just void out.

So I've just been experimenting a lot. Tried to find a reverse ikana well clip, but no luck. Has one been found yet?
Also, like I assume many others have I tried the old N64 HMS CS skip, but that only resulted in a total system freeze.
All in all: I'm new to this game specifically, but excited about the possibilities. Trying to learn the basic tricks, but thus far trying to stay away from anything frame-perfect that can't be buffered. The N3DSXL is just not layed out for that stuff.

I'm learning Any%, and I pretty much have it down, but there's one thing that concerns me: When getting Epona into Clocktown, she stands up on her hind legs every two ingame seconds, and the animation also takes two ingame seconds. So when the time is 5:58 (No ISoT) you can't get on her in time for the day transition. Is there a workaround to this?

She doesn't whinny at fixed intervals, it's random. You just have to be lucky.

ToxicPlaysStuff wrote

I'm learning Any%, and I pretty much have it down, but there's one thing that concerns me: When getting Epona into Clocktown, she stands up on her hind legs every two ingame seconds, and the animation also takes two ingame seconds. So when the time is 5:58 (No ISoT) you can't get on her in time for the day transition. Is there a workaround to this?

There is now, courtesy of me. :)

Epona Skip in MM3D(Milk bar clip with consecutive mask jumps)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6__86lzosJQ

Turns out,  even if you buffer every frame that requires frame perfect input for a consecutive mask jump, it's STILL faster than getting Epona, even with a shaky hand and and wasting time worrying over which inputs to press. I think some of the inputs at the end were unnecessary as well and could be replaced with a normal mask jump, so this can likely be boiled down to around a minute of inputs for a 5 minute skip minus the benefits of Deku sword.

If this doesn't convince you guys to learn consecutive mask jumps, I don't know what will. It's a 2 - 3 minute time save.

The thing is, pause buffering on a regular 3ds even with a digital copy and a class 10 SD card is extremely difficult and people who have played on both the regular 3ds and the New 3ds systems say that the New  3ds home buffering is a godsend compared to the home buffering on a regular 3ds. I myself have tried consecutive mask jumping for what i would estimate to be about and can very rarely do more than 2 consecutive mask jumps at a time. So I for one will not be doing this difficult trick during any of my runs unless an easier way that does not involve an insane amount of pause buffering. Also Deku Sword is cool :P

gymnast86 wrote

The thing is, pause buffering on a regular 3ds even with a digital copy and a class 10 SD card is extremely difficult and people who have played on both the regular 3ds and the New 3ds systems say that the New  3ds home buffering is a godsend compared to the home buffering on a regular 3ds. I myself have tried consecutive mask jumping for what i would estimate to be about and can very rarely do more than 2 consecutive mask jumps at a time. So I for one will not be doing this difficult trick during any of my runs unless an easier way that does not involve an insane amount of pause buffering. Also Deku Sword is cool :P

I'm going to have to agree with every word of this. If someone really wants WR that badly, be my guest, but I really don't want to have to spend time grinding such a difficult trick. Plus, I've tried doing even just 2 in the same jump, but couldn't quite grasp how consecutive jumps work. The socalled video demonstrations really don't provide much in the way of explanation.

Ugggh. Sorry guys. Had no idea it was gonna be a New 3DS exclusive. :(((((

The normal way has less buffering and would have been executed faster, but I was struggling for consistency with the trick and wanted to show that it was possible. I did it this way because I had assumed that home buffering was easy for everybody XP.

It's much easier now than it was though. It's been pointed out that you can press the inventory button during the buffers instead of beforehand, right when you press the mask button, making the trick substantially easier with only face button inputs out of buffers. You might want to take another stab at it now.

Fun fact: still haven't beaten MM, 3D or otherwise, just because I've been enjoying myself messing around with glitches. I've ruined the game for speedrunning and I haven't even finished it yet.

reidenlightman wrote

I'm going to have to agree with every word of this. If someone really wants WR that badly, be my guest, but I really don't want to have to spend time grinding such a difficult trick. Plus, I've tried doing even just 2 in the same jump, but couldn't quite grasp how consecutive jumps work. The socalled video demonstrations really don't provide much in the way of explanation.

Sorry to give a terrible explanation. :/ Feeling like an awful person today even though I should feel great given the find; I seem to just ruin everything. Half considering deleting the videos and having the community pretend this all never happened. Since no one seems to be able to do this trick anyways without my advice I could technically un-ruin this game if I wanted to.

Fun Fact: I wouldn't even have a New 3DS if I hadn't lost my 3DS on a plane flight last July, and likely would have never found this trick in that case. I'll just add this to the laundry list of things ruined by that.

I'll attempt a better explanation right now anyways
basically, the new strategy is this; it's substantially easier to perform.
with bottle on one non-screen button and a transformation mask on another:

1. press b + home at around the same time; I use thumb + middle  This part seems inconsistent; home doesn't seem to act the same way every time, and I need to do more research. My previous statements in the videos about timing aren't particularly accurate, even though I felt the were at the time. sorry. :(

I haven't been getting this very consistently either by the way. Sorry if the videos gave that impression. I just wanted to show that the trick worked and dispel rumors that more than two mask jumps was impossible.

2. return to the game after holding down where the mask inventory screen button would be with your left thumb and the mask button, pressing the home button quickly afterwards ensuring you only advance the game a single frame. ZL's fins should be out halfway at this point. If not, step 1 failed, either from your error or the system's.

What's ultimately going on here is that you are doing a mask jump manually using buffered inputs as Zora while holding down the inventory button on the right frame so that you can release them later. That's all, through all the specific buttons mentioned.

3. release everything on the next home buffer. The inventory screen pops up on just the right frame and you can swap out one mask for another item(which I choose to be another transformation mask because it makes the trick repeatable without pausing), negating the mask storage that locks you out of your buttons while still giving you the mask jump.
4. pull out a bottle, repeat from step 1. bottle causes issues because when you pull out a bottle there's three frames where you cannot perform any inputs at all. It's what makes this trick so difficult.

I'm sorry if this is explanation isn't at all helpful, but I have an exam to study for, so any further explanation is on delay for at least a couple of days. Oh well. Not like anyone wants this to work anyways.

No need to apologize for finding a trick. This isn't the first time a new trick has forced people to buy new systems. OoT has had to deal with this for a while now.

It's possible that we will find another way to use gain distance into the loading zone, or an easier way to consecutive mask jump, or the cost of N3DS will drop. People are just salty.  :)

EDIT: Should N3DS be considered a different platform on the leaderboard if there would be N3DS exclusive tricks? I have no idea what the standard is for this.

I was just about to say what kronspik was about to say, no need to blame yourself for anything, I give props to you for even bothering to test this trick at all, it's good for documentation purposes. And honestly I kind of expected some n3DS exclusive thing to be found, or something that makes it faster sooner or later.

I personally don't really give a shit if its faster or not, even if a run is done on poorer hardware, that doesn't mean it's going to be worse execution wise, by that I mean until someone manages to pull off this skip in a run (with or without n3DS which is just a matter of time) all the times are going to be equal, think of it as some sort of "TAS only" trick that saves a lot of time in some other game, but can't be pulled off. Basically you could unofficially "convert" times, which would give a rough estimate about what time you could've gotten with or without the trick, of course people aiming for WR wouldn't care about that.

It's no doubt that eventually it's going to become the thing that splits the runners, unless we find some other method like kronspik mentioned.

I know it can be demotivating to know this trick exists, but I haven't seen anyone buying a Japanese n3DS to gain advantage yet, so I wouldn't really care about it. It's no different from when people did runs of this game back when it came out, despite it being new and glitches took some time to find. Things like BA weren't used, but people still did runs.

So these are basically my thoughts about this atm, feel free to disagree with me. I probably forgot something, but ah well.

As for my thoughts about how to handle leaderboards, this I think is a bit of a tricky question, as technically n3DS does nothing more than let the game go to the 3DS home menu faster, which doesn't really mean it's faster from a gameplay perspective compared to say iQue with less lag or Wii VC due to emulation. If we're going to split it for that, might as well split by Digital and Cart copies and SD card Class speeds, which also affect home menu speeds... It's a really controversial subject, but hopefully it doesn't take long to come up with a resolution. The last thing I want is this games community to die due to this whole thing, it's better we discuss it now rather than later.

E: On second thought, before we start discussing this more, I think we should probably make a new topic, just to not abuse this one.

Pedalpowertoast wrote

As for my thoughts about how to handle leaderboards, this I think is a bit of a tricky question, as technically n3DS does nothing more than let the game go to the 3DS home menu faster, which doesn't really mean it's faster from a gameplay perspective compared to say iQue with less lag or Wii VC due to emulation. If we're going to split it for that, might as well split by Digital and Cart copies and SD card Class speeds, which also affect home menu speeds... It's a really controversial subject, but hopefully it doesn't take long to come up with a resolution. The last thing I want is this games community to die due to this whole thing, it's better we discuss it now rather than later.

Actually from my understanding, the N3DS lets you consistently perform 1 frame buffers. So you can press Home, advance a single frame, and then press Home again. On other 3DS versions, this is really inconsistent and you will advance 1-3 frames instead. That's the difference between being able to properly execute 1 frame tricks or not. The issue was never about Home speed.

Guess what I just found. (It involves saving you all the price of a New 3DS + Capturecard)

Turns out there's a way to reduce the trick from two buffers to one buffer that I hadn't thought was possible before due to the belief that releasing the inventory buttons prevented input to the game. It adds a frame perfect trick, but if people can do storage in TWW which doesn't have consistent timings like this trick should they can certainly do this, and it means no more relying on buffering which allows everybody with any 3DS to do this trick. I'm probably not going to do this if I ever do runs because it's pretty difficult as it is for me, but I'm sure people like Gymnast or SVA can handle it.

Step 1: press home and b at the exact same time, as if you were doing a mask jump without buffering. I've dome more testing and found this to be the case. The only reason I couldn't tell for sure is because the home button is ridiculously finicky for consistent input, and often pressing b later or earlier would seem to work, but I've determined that to have been a result of not giving the home button sufficient pressure or pressure on a location too far from the center of the button due to the button being concave instead of convex.

Step 2: hold down your deku or goron mask button(on either x or y) and your mask inventory button as the game returns from the home screen. at the very next frame after the game starts back up, let go of the mask inventory button. If you've done it too early you won't pause at all, too late and you won't be able to pull a bottle after the inventory closes because the menu will have popped up too late.

The inventory pops up, and the trick works as it normally does; swap out the deku mask for the goron mask or vice versa and continue with

3: press bottle then b + home simultaneously and repeat from step 2. My advice here is to once you've gotten this step working once or twice to find a rhythm for the button presses; It's what I do, and I'll try and demonstrate it in the video showing this off once I make it.

No video for a while. Got major assignments to do between now and then. Probably will be up on Wednesday presuming I don't end up doing it earlier out of my obsession with this crazy trick overriding my common sense.

Nice! =)

Yeah, I still can't even get it twice. And guess what. I'm using my new New 3DS for it. I can frame buffer 1 frame consistently with the home button. But I cant fucking do this. These explanations are way to convoluted. It really needs to be boiled down to what to do without all the explanation tied in. It makes it extremely hard to understand.

Consecutive mask jumps really aren't worth this frustration.

Edit: I've managed to get 3 in a row. Side note number 2: It took about 100 tires just to get the second mask jump to happen at all. It took 100 tries just to get Zora Link to pull out a goddamn bottle. Not to mention, I tried the clip, just to see if I could get OoB to setup where to do the Mask jumping... tried another 100 times to no avail.