Any% segmented run (goal of sub-1 hour)

ING, Grunz is timing TAS techniques. You have to time it as though speedrunner were actually doing it. Megaflip off stalchild into water and out for a HESS, shit like that. That's not happening in a 15 minute segment with a bunch of hard tricks already.

ZFG, post your rough timing, I want to see what your estimates look like compared to mine.

Ok now I realized I timed something wrong again in the silver scale route and it looks slowest again.  Here are my calculations, I'm sure I messed something up but it sure looks like silver scale is out

silver scale route

kokiri to zr - ?:??
to bean - 0:27
to zd - 0:45
to silver scale and to ruto bottle - 1:55
plant bean 0:20
giving letter to after cs - 1:23
leave zd - 0:23
zr to castle - 1:10

total - 6:23 + ?:?? (22?) - 6:45


kakariko - zr

kokiri to kakariko - 0:30
cucco collecting to exit kv - 2:25
to zr - 0:20
bean - 0:23
leave zr - 0:10
to lh - ?:??
plant bean - 0:25
to owl to castle - 1:10

total - 5:23 + ?:?? (1:00?) - 6:23


zr - kakariko

kokiri to zr - ?:??
to bean - 0:27
leave zr - 0:10
to kakariko - 0:20
cucco collecting to exit kv - 2:25
to lh - 0:56
plant bean - 0:25
to owl to castle - 1:10

total - 5:55 + ?:?? (25?) - 6:20

Runnerguy2489 wrote

ING, Grunz is timing TAS techniques. You have to time it as though speedrunner were actually doing it. Megaflip off stalchild into water and out for a HESS, shit like that. That's not happening in a 15 minute segment with a bunch of hard tricks already.

ZFG, post your rough timing, I want to see what your estimates look like compared to mine.

no rg, grunz said that with tas techniques it would be nearly a minute faster. 30 seconds is without tas techniques. just go ask him yourself.

Then the question to ask is how much time do you lose because you have to wait for daylight?

Or, instead of all these theoretical questions, someone could take another groobotube type demo and do it and see.

Runnerguy2489 wrote

Or, instead of all these theoretical questions, someone could take another groobotube type demo and do it and see.

sounds like a plan, rg. :) i would do that myself, but unfortunately my usb controller adapter is a piece of horse shit and doesn't work properly, so my only option would be to use a keyboard (which... i'm definitely not doing). hopefully someone else will do it and find out exactly how much time the bean route does save in the long run. :)

ING-X wrote

sounds like a plan, rg. :) i would do that myself, but unfortunately my usb controller adapter is a piece of horse shit and doesn't work properly, so my only option would be to use a keyboard (which... i'm definitely not doing). hopefully someone else will do it and find out exactly how much time the bean route does save in the long run. :)

Ing do a TAS without slowdown or frame advance (unless to execute hard tricks), and save states. That's what groobo did I believe.

aleckermit wrote

Ing do a TAS without slowdown or frame advance (unless to execute hard tricks), and save states. That's what groobo did I believe.

uh, what part of "i don't have a usb controller adapter that works properly" didn't you understand the first time <.<

ING-X wrote

uh, what part of "i don't have a usb controller adapter that works properly" didn't you understand the first time <.<

TAS's don't use any type of controller, you use a TAS input plug-in that only uses the mouse. It's quite easy to use actually.

aleckermit wrote

TAS's don't use any type of controller, you use a TAS input plug-in that only uses the mouse. It's quite easy to use actually.

but that plugin requires using frame advance...

ING-X wrote

but that plugin requires using frame advance...

He said "do a TAS". Of course he wants you to use FA. >_>

Ya man, just make it TAS but do it to the abilities of a console runner like me. Doesn't require a USB joystick. The point is just to get a good comparison.

BEAN ROUTE TEST RESULTS:
Part 1 (up to Ruto Bottle)
Part 2 (Zora's River vs Owl)
Part 3 (Market, buy shield, DoT)

Conclusion:

Segment 4's final time: 17:50
Total Time as a child: 19:54

VS

Current method: 19:56 (adding in after pocket cucco to hookshot save)

These both do not include time to get pocket cucco in segment 5, but that's the same anyway.

SO: Bean Route is 2 seconds quicker. Give it another 17 seconds for faster fisherman text and 10 seconds from not having to talk to scarecrows. That's 29 seconds faster.

BUT: Then it will lose 5 seconds twice from not being able to hookshot after pressure jump. It will also lose time going through Goron City the second time, which is a loss of 10 seconds. It will also be down 3 bombs (2 for extra megaflip and superslide, and another for the gerudo bridge megaflip). That's three less superslides, so taking my weakest 3 superslides that's about 2 + 4 + 3 = 9 seconds. That's -29 seconds.

So + 29 and - 29...or, in otherwords. THE TWO ROUTES ARE NEARLY IDENTICAL FOR A CONSOLE PLAYER!!!! So I will continue with my current run, because this segment 4 is crazy hard.

good thing you don't have to restart.

hm, that doesn't quite sound right somehow. are you sure you did all that right? last i checked the total time as child should be around 19:39 if you take the owl route, so the bean route should still be ~15 seconds faster for a console player.

and how is talking to the owl actually faster? zfg timed both routes and it ended up being 10 seconds faster to go down zora's river. something seems very wrong here.

ING-X wrote

hm, that doesn't quite sound right somehow. are you sure you did all that right? last i checked the total time as child should be around 19:39 if you take the owl route, so the bean route should still be ~15 seconds faster for a console player.

If you don't believe it, then do it for yourself and see. Where are you even getting your 19:39? That's my old estimate lol. But I've done my test and there are no "estimates" here, it's all real testing. So I don't care what anyone says, they'd have to show a vid of it done faster for me to even look at this again.

ING-X wrote

and how is talking to the owl actually faster? zfg timed both routes and it ended up being 10 seconds faster to go down zora's river. something seems very wrong here.

It only seems wrong because it is a result you did not expect. Again, do it for yourself and see.

hm, well the only thing inaccurate i can see in your timing is that you took WAY too long to set up the rock clip. there's a strat to set it up that takes like 2 seconds that i discovered. you took about 10 seconds longer than i do to set up the rock clip.

so in that case, even if your calculations are correct (which i think they are actually), the bean route can still save around 10 seconds on console (maybe even more since the megaflip bridge skip is probably a bit faster than hookshot bridge skip). still not enough for you to have to restart your run, but i'm still going to keep going with my run on the bean route. who knows, maybe i'll finish before the end of 2010 :P

True, I was aware of this and decided to take my time with that trick, since I most likely would in a console run too, especially one of this length. Additionally, the clip through the rocks seemed a bit slow. There were a few spots where I savestated and it makes it a bit slower too.

Naturally in a segment of a length of 17:50, even 10 seconds of mistakes is not that much. If the "true" length is 17:40, then a 17:50 is great. You'd be hard pressed to not have 10 seconds of errors.

Good luck with your run if you do this. Maybe you'll get segment 4 before the end of 2010. I know I wouldn't, lol.

Well, since this bean route appears to be no faster than the current any% route I'm just going to do MST segmented instead. I don't feel like doing that hellish segment anyway. ^_^

Ing, can you test the MST segged route before you go along with it? I already know of a minor bomb-route mistake in it (forgetting to allocate bombs for ground jumps in SFM), but I want to hear if there is more before fixing it. My route is near the bottom of the MST segged topic.

Also keep in mind that you have to play on GC, since without bottle, the DC oob hover saves a significant ammount of time. If you don't play on GC, just tell me and I can fix up the route and use those bombs/chus elsewhere.

well i've played through the mst segged route before, and i didn't really see any problems. obviously i'll play on gc, but i'm not doing ess forest escape (it doesn't save all that much time anyway), and i'll probably have to take some time to get used to gc again before i start the run.

The main issue is bomb counts, the route should be solid itself. It is just way too easy to forget to allocate a bomb somewhere, and you don't want to be stuck needing 2 bombs in a place with no nearby drops.

Also, has anyone ever tested the megaflip into explosion trick for the DC hover? It may reduce one bomb there, which would save a few seconds.

hm, idk, but let's continue this conversation in the mst seg'd topic as not to derail this one.

Aww, come on. I love watching topics get derailed.

Ok, well I recently came to the conclusion that the bean route is potentially ~10 seconds faster if we can luck-manipulate 2 bomb drops from the grass in segment 8 (therefore cancelling out the 3-bomb disadvantage). The question is if this is feasible.

In segment 7, we already have to luck-manipulate 2 bomb drops, and getting that right is such an unlikely event that RG only got it right twice in 4 hours of playing. Manipulating 2 bomb drops here from the same set of grass, then getting the magic quick text (which is a frame perfect trick), AND hitting that lag-filled superslide through the falling rocks doesn't seem feasible in any console run.

What do you guys think?

I got 3 bomb drops off the graveyard grass.


Get wrecked. BTW,


BEANS

Zero wrote

I got 3 bomb drops off the graveyard grass.


Get wrecked. BTW,


BEANS

I've had 5 drop before.

aleckermit wrote

I've had 5 drop before.

oh snap aleck burnt you zero

mysticremen11 wrote

oh snap aleck burnt you zero

D:

I'm talking about the grass in LW, not the graveyard -.-

ING-X wrote

I'm talking about the grass in LW, not the graveyard -.-

Why couldn't you get 5 bomb dropd from those 3 bushes? Step yo game up.