100% Segmented Team Run

ING-X wrote

So i was right - VC DOES have pause delay! I knew there was something odd about the pauses on VC when I first played it. Did you just time the length of the pauses on all 3 versions and conclude that GCN and VC's pauses took longer than N64's?

If you look at each of the pauses frame-by-frame, you can see on VC/GCN there is a moment where the screen becomes blurred until the pause menu begins to appear. The blur is the delay time, so I just timed them. It's non-existent on N64.

So we lose about 50 seconds in the run due to pausing (and some people thought keeping count of pauses was a bad idea). Plus whatever it takes to buffer tricks like megajump.

Still well worth it to use VC since there's 30 seconds of lag on N64 in the last segment alone, plus areas like botw which are laggy too.

I like ZFG's idea of just mapping out the bombs by looking over the route. If we add more in later, we've already got lots of places to add a drop (I made a post of many common areas). We could probably just do this in #route in an hour or so.

aleckermit wrote

If you look at each of the pauses frame-by-frame, you can see on VC/GCN there is a moment where the screen becomes blurred until the pause menu begins to appear. The blur is the delay time, so I just timed them. It's non-existent on N64.

hm, I should test that out myself with simply timing the pauses to see if it's just a graphical glitch or not.

EDIT: How do you know the blur is the delay time? Also, what about how long it takes for the game to unpause?

EDIT: You are right, I just timed it. N64 pauses in 22 frames, VC pauses in 31, and GCN pauses in 44.

RG, ZFG, RR, and I worked on the explosive route in #route today, and this is what we came up with: http://www.mediafire.com/?xlz78iyya1s1sv3

It's not complete (it only goes up to about halfway through Segment 58) and it doesn't make complete sense (we use negative bomb counts because we don't want to write in random drops yet), but it's a very solid start. We'll probably have this done very soon.

Edit: RR, ZFG, and I finished this up when RG left: http://www.mediafire.com/?h71gfoptj6egjxh
We use approximately 156 bombs and 29 chus. We just need to map drops and make final corrections, and then we'll be done.

Edit 2: The route is almost done. Download it here: http://www.mediafire.com/?4imc06jennjfpnt
There's a few things I want to run by RG before I declare it done, but it's basically complete.

As the route is now finished, I'm sure a lot of people are getting anxious to start running.

PLEASE DO NOT START ATTEMPTING SEGMENTS UNTIL WE GET A FEW KEY THING SETTLED.

First of all, some knowledgable players are going to read through the route, making sure all the bombs are charted correctly (don't want to end up having to megaflip without a bomb). We are also coming up with some contingency plans on where else we could get drops if need be (a big one being the G Castle beamos if we don't get the Flare Dancer drop).

Secondly, we need to organize a system for submission and acceptance. What we don't want is RG posting saying "hey I'll do this segment" then everyone else saying "k", then a few days later RG posts saying "here it is" and then everyone else says "k, next segment". We want to make sure, at least for the easier segments, we get a decent ammount of submissions. We also want to be absolutely sure we are ready to move on before we move on. If we can optimize a short segment to save another half second, I see no reason why not to.

My suggestion, as I stated before, is to have a "submit" button on ZSR, that allows people to upload runs for the current segment. We will also have a team of (experienced) verifiers, and if any segment attempt lasts X days (3?) without any improvements AND is accepted by ALL of the verifiers, we can move onto the next one. Ideally, there would be 3-5 verifiers.

Once again, this is NOT a competition. Do not be a Grunz and keep secret strategies. We should all be helping eachother get the best segment possible. On the flip side, some competition is encouraged. We don't want to assign RG every single segment that has a superslide across hyrule field. There is no reason that multiple people should not be trying any given segment.

So, opinions?


Edit: We also need a way to store completed segments. A special folder on ZSR would work, and if people could also individually host them that would be great. Make sure we have the raw file for each segment, not just the encodes.

Edit 2: For those of you who don't want to download the route, you can view it here. ZSR's settings unfortunately make it so the route has too many characters to fit in one post. It will hopefully be added to the main site soon.

About submitting segments to ZSR in the future:

First of all it's very important that you save your raw recorded segment files in multiple places for safe keeping. Once we have a way of submitting segments to ZSR for judging, it's VERY IMPORTANT that you encode your segments properly for submission. I have worked with Nate (co-admin and lead tech-guy at SDA) on the settings we needs to use for submitting our segments to SDA.

I've made a thread  (http://forums.zeldaspeedruns.com/index.php?topic=446.0) that tells you exactly how to encode a segment of VC OoT. I keep the thread updated so be sure to check it often for changes. You MUST use this exact system to encode your segments, if you absolutely can't use anri-chan for whatever reason, you need to send the raw file to someone who can. The encoded MP4's that you will send to ZSR are the exact files that will be sent to SDA for final submission so they need to be encoded the correct way or the quality/framerate of the gameplay will not be consistent segment-to-segment.

When a system for submitting segments to ZSR is available, I will make a new thread describing the exact steps you need to take to encode/submit your segments (including where to get/how to use anri-chan specifically). Also we're most likely going to need to render/encode the raw segments separately for the ZSR Youtube account since the MP4's we're submitting to SDA become very low quality when uploaded to Youtube. Most likely we'll just let the owner of the raw file render the video however they want, just like they do for their Youtube account.

The route is now officially complete. Download the .txt file here: http://www.mediafire.com/?0dwkl4iuwr4i67w
There are a few changes from the route that I posted a few posts back. The biggest change is that Segment 58 is now split up into two segments.

In the previous route, the runner would have to hoverslide onto the Colossus, grab a Skulltula in the child side, then exit and hoverslide to the Mirror Shield, then complete a large chunk of the Spirit Temple (including Twinrova), and finally grab two skulltulas at the base of the Colossus and grab Nayru's Love. Since we decided that this segment was too long, we split it up; collecting the Skulltulas on the outside of the colossus and grabbing Nayru's Love now come first. After that, we SS back to the Spirit Temple, enter, and save. The following segment completes the rest of the Spirit Temple, and includes both hoverslides. We lose five seconds max with this strategy, and a good portion of that could be made up with the optimization that a shorter segment affords.

The other change involves the Fire Temple. Using FW, it's possible to save 10 seconds and an explosive. RG came up with the strategy, but he didn't test it, so he didn't know how much time it saved until I tried it. Using this FW point, it's also possible to split the segment, so this segment has also been split to preserve our runners' sanity.

I would advise everyone to look over RR's last post before starting the run, because it contains some solid points. I would also like to remind everyone of what RG always says: "The route is a free-flowing document". You may have thought of something that we did not, and you are welcome to try it. Just remember, however, that we strictly counted our explosives; we reach 0B/0C at the end of the run, so there isn't a whole lot of freedom.

Until any other suggestion is drafted, I have to assume we are going with "if the attempt lasts for three days with no improvement, it is sent to five verifiers who will publish the segment if they all agree." If other people are still working on the segment, and they have the potential to improve the current one (e.g. not me working on a segment halting the whole process), the verifiers can choose to reject the segment temporarily and review it again later if no improvement comes through.

So, who will the verifiers be?

I think ZFG and Runnerguy are both obvious choices. There is really no denying they both have a lot of knowledge, skill, and experience with running.

Pokey I think is a really strong choice, and I see no reason why he shouldn't be one of the verifiers.

For the other 1-2, does anyone have any suggestions? Swordless and Cosmo are strong candidates, and Jiano is pretty good too. Or maybe there is somebody else I'm completely forgetting (like brianMP...if only).

I'd very much like to verify. I have an extreme eye for details.

CURRENT SEGMENT: Segment 4
File: Here
Current fastest time: No submissions so far
Route: Here
MAKE SURE YOU HAVE THE MOST UP TO DATE VERSION OF THE ROUTE BEFORE RUNNING.

How to submit a segment attempt:
1. Make sure you are using the official save file (name: ZSR) and that everything synchs up with the route. If there are slight alterations because you used an extra bomb, etc, include that in your post.
2. Make sure you are using the official Virtual Console version on Wii (not 1.0 VC) and that you are recording to SDA standards (if you have a DVD recorder or a good capture card, you should be fine).
3. Encode your video file using Anri-Chan, as outlined in this post. Normal quality is preferred, although any quality would work for submission.
4. Upload your encoded video to YouTube or a file sharing site (RapidShare, MegaUpload, MediaFire etc). Post the appropriate link in this topic.
5. If your segment ends up being accepted (keep checking back on this topic to find out if it is), send the raw (non-encoded) video file to Runnerguy2489, RingRush, or ZFG for on-site storage. If possible, also send an encode so that we can upload the segment to the ZSR YouTube. Keep the raw file on your computer as backup, in case something happens to the ZSR version.
6. In addition, if your segment is accepted, use an SD card as outlined here to upload your save file to any file sharing site and send it to a ZSR administrator. This step MUST be done before anyone can begin attempting the next segment.

Completed segment archive:
Segment 1
Segment 2
Segment 3
Segment 4
Segment 5

After talking with Runnerguy, we've decided the best thing to do would be a pool of verifiers, and as many of them can verify the segment as they wish, minimum 4.

Please do not try to sign up for the pool if you do not have a significant ammount of expirience and knowledge with OoT. We'll try to be a bit loose about submissions, but will ignore clearly underqualified people.

Current pool:
Runnerguy
ZFG
Pokey
Cosmo
Jiano
Aleckermit
Swordless
Brianmp (if he ever shows up)


And with that and the recently created submission topic:
LET THE RUN BEGIN!


Cosmo: I'm not sure if this is essential, but could we maybe have a subforum for 100%? I think it would be easier to organize if we had a few topics: one for submission, one for strategy discussion for the current segment (i.e. timing strats, sidehop vs backwalk, etc), this general topic which would also include route discussion and tech/process discussion, and one for verification so everyone knows when verification is up and how verifiers are reacting. Also, alec's topic on encoding for this run.

i SUPPOSE i can verify, if you guys ask nicely..

i'd very much like to be in the pool too; i have very good attention to detail and am very knowledgable in oot :)

ing just wants free lizalfos porn. Please don't indulge him.

CURSES, FOILED AGAIN

Seg 1 submission http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UF9c2a_xhYk

See, what really sucks for me (and I've mentioned this before) is that I could be a verifier if only I had more actual experience with the game. I understand that, for the purpose of verifying, one needs to both be very knowledgeable and skilled in the game. As I only fit the description of being very knowledgeable (e.g. I've read the route, have been able to keep up with it and not go "How is this done?" or "How do you do this?"), this would mean I can't be a verifier, right?

I just wish there was some way I could help with this.

On a different note, if we host the run on Youtube, at least we won't have to worry about splitting the video if it's under 15 minutes. I love the new video time limit!

I'd like to be a verifier if this run ever gets started. (Come on people!) I can't do any segments of this run as the only versions of the game I have are on N64, but I'd still like to be a part of it and the only way I can think of is to be a verifier. I'm very knowledgable and skilled at this game, although I haven't been very active in IRC until recently. I've watched many speedruns of this game and have done almost every trick multiple times.

Exodus122 wrote

I'd like to be a verifier if this run ever gets started. (Come on people!) I can't do any segments of this run as the only versions of the game I have are on N64, but I'd still like to be a part of it and the only way I can think of is to be a verifier. I'm very knowledgable and skilled at this game, although I haven't been very active in IRC until recently. I've watched many speedruns of this game and have done almost every trick multiple times.

Segment 1 is done (although it can be improved at any time in the future). Segment 2 is underway.

I thought ZFG rejected his segment.

Exodus122 wrote

I thought ZFG rejected his segment.

Segment 1 can be redone at any time in the run because there's really nothing to make the same as previous/next segment (besides 2 rupees and sword equipped, but that's part of the segment anyway).

Segment 2 submission: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Yy14Z7ZwpQ

Yo ZFG, we need your raw file to store on the site and an encoded version to upload to ZSR's youtube. We are still officially on segment 1 until you provide those.

Blarg, wont be able to do that until my comp is working again and I'm not sure how long that will take (still stuck on wii internet >_<).

But would I be able to do seg 3 while waiting for that?  No need to have consistent time for that seg since its in a dungeon and the only other thing to make consistent would be rupees.

Yeah I think anyone could try some seg3 if they want. If you can't get my Wii Save from the site then just get in the botw with ocarina (not equipped), sword, no shield, and 2 rupees. I think that was it.

Seg 1 raw is in ftp.  We're officially on seg 3.  I'm practicing seg 3 and hopefully I can get a good seg once I get some more DVDs.

seg 3 submission http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nqww0A7BZDY

Segment 4 submission: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9Qnd_a39L0

Segment 5 submission (was forced to upload to show strats, may try to improve):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUIIsNqlsA8

Time is 1:56;28

Seg 5 submission http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17B8tkpJm60