WW Tricks and Glitches Discussion

Slowking wrote

öhm yeah. I'm pretty sure 18 minutes-ish is from hovering into FF2 to Hyrule 2. No way hovering into FF2 takes that long... unless you have to hover from the next island. Could somebody clearify?

Anyway. EMS would save us getting Jabus Pearl, raising ToG, clearing ToG, all that cutscene crap of the master sword and clearing Hyrule castle from the enemies.
But ofcourse it would cost us hovering into FF2, clearing FF2 and that cutscene crap at Ganons and the unraised ToG.

Should be close...

If corrupting the MS drawing CS is how early GT will be done--not yet confirmed--then EMS won't be an option. As it looks now, zombie hover is not how we are going to get to GT early, unless an indirect relationship of the two is involved.

@Slowking - Maybe I'm remembering wrong, but I timed Ani doing EFF2 and I seem to remember it taking around 18 minutes. He didn't use the closest island to FF though (forgot about that in that last post).

Razor wrote

If corrupting the MS drawing CS is how early GT will be done--not yet confirmed--then EMS won't be an option. As it looks now, zombie hover is not how we are going to get to GT early, unless an indirect relationship of the two is involved.

I'm pretty sure we can't zombie hover to GT early? Even if we could get over/around the barrier the angle to GT isn't straight and so we would need a way of changing angle. Or we could heal off the enemies behind the barrier but the constant knockback from the barrier makes it difficult as we have to restart the hover every couple of seconds.

I've been experimenting but have come up with nothing so far. I was using a bomb to blast myself through the damage barrier and then once behind trying various things to prevent getting knocked out.
The problem is that I can only stay behind the barrier for about a second before I get knocked out and so have virtually no time to attempt to break through the invisible wall.

Have to give the developers some credit here, they got it locked down pretty tight... Then again, thats what we used to think about the rest of Wind Waker

Dashiamo wrote

The problem is that I can only stay behind the barrier for about a second before I get knocked out and so have virtually no time to attempt to break through the invisible wall.

Take out the Wind Waker at the same time as you stop flashing red, now you can move inside the barrier as long as you want without getting knocked down untill you take damage from something else such as bombs.

Razor wrote

If corrupting the MS drawing CS is how early GT will be done--not yet confirmed--then EMS won't be an option. As it looks now, zombie hover is not how we are going to get to GT early, unless an indirect relationship of the two is involved.

Well somebody really needs to get TAS Dolphin set up and test all the theories again. I remember a lot of things that were thought impossible in OoT and MM, but once TAS confirmed that they are indeed possible people started doing them on console, too.
For example I still think it might be possible to clip through the damage barriere while being undead...

Phazon wrote

@Slowking - Maybe I'm remembering wrong, but I timed Ani doing EFF2 and I seem to remember it taking around 18 minutes. He didn't use the closest island to FF though (forgot about that in that last post).

Is there no spot directly at FF where you can hover from? Or does the King not let you in the proximety of FF without MS?
If the King is the problem and we don't need forest water to skip the barrier we could ofcourse superswim to FF... Then we might even be able to just WW dive into it...

Ugh, totally forgot about superswim. It doesn't really matter now, but I just timed the hover to FF2 as 14 minutes, not 18.

Phazon wrote

Ugh, totally forgot about superswim. It doesn't really matter now, but I just timed the hover to FF2 as 14 minutes, not 18.

So the King won't let you near FF without MS? I haven't played TWW in a long time so I don't remember. If that's the problem and FF has a little land outside of it we should be able to just WW dive into it. No hover needed.

So the ideal route would probably be:
Dragon roost -> forest haven -> bottle forest water -> get deku leaf and do forbidden woods -> get bombs -> get quiver -> superswim to FF -> WW dive into FF (or maybe you can just clip the doors with super swim speed) -> EMS -> barriere skip -> GT

Now we only have to get this to work. XD

Btw. how did you time Anis EMS hover? is there a video. The only one I know of starts in FF2.

Edit: Just saw Anis bombs early video. Maybe that would be a good option, too. Doing bombs early instead of Dragon Roost and Forbidden Woods. We would only need to get bottle and Deku leaf and never set foot into any of the dungeons...

I think bombs early route would be:

DRI (with WW, Bottle and Tingle Tuner) > GFI with hover > WFI (Idk if KoRL would warp to GFI or not so might need another hover if it's possible from GFI without bombs) > Get bombs > FH > Get deku leaf and forest water > Four-Eyed Reef (Closest island to FF) > Superswim to FF2 > EMS > Barrier skip > GT.

Whether or not that'd be faster, idk.

EDIT:

Pointless trick. If you go in the back entrance of the bomb shop, sidle and crouch on the little gap you crawled in through, you get stuck and have to savewarp to get out.

Dashiamo wrote

Have to give the developers some credit here, they got it locked down pretty tight... Then again, thats what we used to think about the rest of Wind Waker

Yes the game developers did plan the path to GT wisely, but there is surely a way to get past it never the less.
@Slowking & Phazon
The routes that you vaguely outline here need some rethinking. I can see a few areas where we'd waste more time then we'd save. As soon as early GT is found, we need to crack down on timing and testing routes--especially forest water routes--and find any finishing timesavers and smaller sequence breaks. I don't want to cut out skipping Phantom Ganon yet.
@Slowking
TAS testing will not be necessary, as we are already testing on a console what would just begin to be understood with TAS.

Razor wrote

I can see a few areas where we'd waste more time then we'd save.

Yeah, I didn't say the bomb-early route was faster though...

Phazon wrote

Yeah, I didn't say the bomb-early route was faster though...

I think Slowking took it that way though.
EDIT:
Would a turbo controller be allowed by SDA regulations?

No.

Razor wrote

I think Slowking took it that way though.

Not really. Was just an idea. But since korl is a little bitch and doesn't let you go anywhere before you've done the first two dungeons it's really not an option.

Btw. it really gets on my nerve how pople here say "Oh TAS can't do anything to help". TAS is great for testing shit. MM and OoT have had a lot of breaks that were found by TAS and only later done on console.

Slowking wrote

Not really. Was just an idea. But since korl is a little bitch and doesn't let you go anywhere before you've done the first two dungeons it's really not an option.

Btw. it really gets on my nerve how pople here say "Oh TAS can't do anything to help". TAS is great for testing shit. MM and OoT have had a lot of breaks that were found by TAS and only later done on console.

I'm not saying that TAS can't do anything, I'm simply saying that TAS is not the best option for testing right now. Testing with TAS has been done before in WW, and because of TAS's perfect timing, it makes many of it's finds useless on a console for WW.

I have seen a shitload of tricks in OoT and MM that were considered TAS only. Sooner or later some runners could do all of them consistntly on console... well maybe except the Tektite hover in OoT, but that's really the only one console runners can't do.

Even if a barriere skip found by TASing would only have a one frame window, it would still be viable, since it would be at the beginning of a segment.

Slowking wrote

I have seen a shitload of tricks in OoT and MM that were considered TAS only. Sooner or later some runners could do all of them consistntly on console... well maybe except the Tektite hover in OoT, but that's really the only one console runners can't do.

Even if a barriere skip found by TASing would only have a one frame window, it would still be viable, since it would be at the beginning of a segment.

I agree with this.

Anyway, I've found a way to get onto the side wall of the bridge where the barrier is, without zombie hovering or dying. you can't hang off either side though so no chance of hang clip. I'll have a video up soon.

GlitchesAndStuff wrote

I agree with this.

Anyway, I've found a way to get onto the side wall of the bridge where the barrier is, without zombie hovering or dying. you can't hang off either side though so no chance of hang clip. I'll have a video up soon.

hmm but maybe you can do something with forest water clip in there... probably not but maybe.

GlitchesAndStuff wrote

Anyway, I've found a way to get onto the side wall of the bridge where the barrier is, without zombie hovering or dying. you can't hang off either side though so no chance of hang clip. I'll have a video up soon.

and here's the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7nXt-WbZJI
needs double magic

GlitchesAndStuff wrote

and here's the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7nXt-WbZJI
needs double magic

Interesting find, though for the most optimized barrier skip, we won't have the hookshot. Anyway, I found a new forest water glitch yesterday. I'll try to put a video up soon, but windows movie maker is glitching up. Does anyone know what to do when it says there is no camera attached, but it is and it's turned on? I can't figure it out.

so, if we skip the first barrier, there are a 2nd barrier, and then a 3rd barrier?! lmao 3 barriers, nintendo is very crazy  ;D

Screw optimisation. If you need the Hookshot to get behind the barrier then use it. It's a million times better than nothing.

By the way I noticed yesterday that under the bridge outside HC, there is an object you can target with your Boomerang, which you can't hit because the bridge is in the way. I don't know what's down there that the Boomerang is targetting. It's probably nothing interesting, but I'm kinda curious.

NOKAUBURE wrote

so, if we skip the first barrier, there are a 2nd barrier, and then a 3rd barrier?! lmao 3 barriers, nintendo is very crazy  ;D

No, there's only 2. Wall and damage.

Okay Guys I think I can get barrier skip. It's a TAS only and it'll be really hard to pull off if I ever do. I need a savestate on dolphin to test. I need one at hyrule just after you have the triforce of courage (so It has hookshot).

What's the plan?

GlitchesAndStuff wrote

Okay Guys I think I can get barrier skip. It's a TAS only and it'll be really hard to pull off if I ever do. I need a savestate on dolphin to test. I need one at hyrule just after you have the triforce of courage (so It has hookshot).

I'd like to see what you plan to do because it sounds interesting. Excuse my statements, but even if you do get it to work--which would be great--it would be useful only as a guiding idea. First of all, if it's after we get the ToC then it's next to useless for skipping only the darknut battle. Also, if it's TAS only then we get to wastefully sped more time seeing if it is console-possible. Never the less, I'd like to see what you're planning to do so that I can work with it. Good work, though! :)

Razor wrote

I'd like to see what you plan to do because it sounds interesting. Excuse my statements, but even if you do get it to work--which would be great--it would be useful only as a guiding idea. First of all, if it's after we get the ToC then it's next to useless for skipping only the darknut battle. Also, if it's TAS only then we get to wastefully sped more time seeing if it is console-possible. Never the less, I'd like to see what you're planning to do so that I can work with it. Good work, though! :)

Okay, so. After getting on the side wall and past the damage barrier (with wind waker), I wind waker dived off the edge and then after falling for a while I canceled it and took out my leaf and I got past the barrier.

so, I got past the barrier...
the problem was that I was miles down under the ground...

but I recently found out that you can use the wind waker with 0 hearts if you mash it after knockback. So if I can lose my last heart with knockback and fly back into an un-exploded bomb, and ge out the wind waker, I could possibly pull out the wind waker and dive off the edge with 0 hearts. After I have fell for a while I can cancel the wind waker and start hovering up to ganon's castle entrance.

so if you want to try then please, do.

GlitchesAndStuff wrote

Okay, so. After getting on the side wall and past the damage barrier (with wind waker), I wind waker dived off the edge and then after falling for a while I canceled it and took out my leaf and I got past the barrier.

so, I got past the barrier...
the problem was that I was miles down under the ground...

but I recently found out that you can use the wind waker with 0 hearts if you mash it after knockback. So if I can lose my last heart with knockback and fly back into an un-exploded bomb, and ge out the wind waker, I could possibly pull out the wind waker and dive off the edge with 0 hearts. After I have fell for a while I can cancel the wind waker and start hovering up to ganon's castle entrance.

so if you want to try then please, do.

Sounds interesting, however, it also sounds incredibly difficult. We'd have to hope that when link dies upon entering GT that he is not warped back out to before the barrier. I would still love to see a video of this, and hope that with some work, we can optimize it even more.

GlitchesAndStuff wrote

but I recently found out that you can use the wind waker with 0 hearts if you mash it after knockback. So if I can lose my last heart with knockback and fly back into an un-exploded bomb, and ge out the wind waker, I could possibly pull out the wind waker and dive off the edge with 0 hearts. After I have fell for a while I can cancel the wind waker and start hovering up to ganon's castle entrance.

so if you want to try then please, do.

Hmm you can use a bomb to push you off ledges to make WW dive easier. Don't you take damage while doing that? If so just let the bomb push you off while having WW out, fall far enough to be outside the damage barriere (shouldn't be that low the invisible wall is the one thats high) and then start zombie hover...

On the other hand. If we can start WW dive while being dead we could die at korl, zombie hover to the bridge, ww dive down and continue zombie hovering. That would skip the hookshot and would make H1 -> GT possible... but it would be insanely hard. :D

Razor wrote

Sounds interesting, however, it also sounds incredibly difficult. We'd have to hope that when link dies upon entering GT that he is not warped back out to before the barrier. I would still love to see a video of this, and hope that with some work, we can optimize it even more.

If you get into GTs loading zone you are golden.

Hope it works, I'd love to test it but I only have a file at hyrule 1. If it works then all we need to do is get on the side during hyrule 1/2. Maybe I'll try to find a way of doing that without hookshot and double magic.

Slowking wrote

Hmm you can use a bomb to push you off ledges to make WW dive easier. Don't you take damage while doing that? If so just let the bomb push you off while having WW out, fall far enough to be outside the damage barriere (shouldn't be that low the invisible wall is the one thats high) and then start zombie hover...

On the other hand. If we can start WW dive while being dead we could die at korl, zombie hover to the bridge, ww dive down and continue zombie hovering. That would skip the hookshot and would make H1 -> GT possible... but it would be insanely hard. :D
If you get into GTs loading zone you are golden.

Either way it would be insanely difficult. But if it works it's worth it.