WW Tricks and Glitches Discussion

Paraxade wrote

so yeah... ToG/hyrule 1 skip dead ends in hyrule 3. you can't destroy the barrier. :/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vODpzjNc0M

So what if we complete ToG and skip the barrier during hyrule 1. Can we then go on to skip trials, light arrow skip, puppet ganon skip and then beat gannondorf with hero sword and shield?

Dashiamo wrote

So what if we complete ToG and skip the barrier during hyrule 1. Can we then go on to skip trials, light arrow skip, puppet ganon skip and then beat gannondorf with hero sword and shield?

assuming we could get past the barrier, yes.

why cant past the barrier with zombie hover? there are a invisibe ceilling or anything like these? Collection delay cant help? This barrier sucks :(

NOKAUBURE wrote

why cant past the barrier with zombie hover? there are a invisibe ceilling or anything like these? Collection delay cant help? This barrier sucks :(

There's no way to hover all the way up without getting hit by the barrier.

Marcus wrote

There's no way to hover all the way up without getting hit by the barrier.

Marcus is right Nokaubure. The barrier is too high, has a ceiling, and zombie hover is far from being vertical, which means you'll hit the barrier every time. Collection delay has already been tested and it doesn't do anything.

I have no video of it yet but I've almost done hero sword skip in FF1...
Go all the way up on the middle tower, take damage from the bokoblin then pick a stick.
From the tower you can face the door that leads to helmaroc cutscene and jump down on the wood boat (the one you use for Gossip text skip). Link will take 1/4 damage and keep the stick so you can quickly do a sidehop and start mashing B for zombie hover. It requires insanely fast mashing (but possible I think) to reach the top of FF. With the good angle I'm sure we can reach the loading zone and skip 70% of FF1 (and maybe the sword that would surely lead to interesting results).


It's really hard to start the sidejump-stick-hover because of the very short frame windows before dying from fall damage. I get it one time for 20 tries. So if someone with a turbo controller could try to, it would be nice.

Happy 4th of July! ;D ;D ;D

Majora MIM wrote

I have no video of it yet but I've almost done hero sword skip in FF1...
Go all the way up on the middle tower, take damage from the bokoblin then pick a stick.
From the tower you can face the door that leads to helmaroc cutscene and jump down on the wood boat (the one you use for Gossip text skip). Link will take 1/4 damage and keep the stick so you can quickly do a sidehop and start mashing B for zombie hover. It requires insanely fast mashing (but possible I think) to reach the top of FF. With the good angle I'm sure we can reach the loading zone and skip 70% of FF1 (and maybe the sword that would surely lead to interesting results).


It's really hard to start the sidejump-stick-hover because of the very short frame windows before dying from fall damage. I get it one time for 20 tries. So if someone with a turbo controller could try to, it would be nice.

Okay, I've just done it on Dolphin (hard to get it, took me ages). I'm on windfall now with no hearts. what should I try or do next.

so, a few things It would be cool to try is going back for hero's sword (from FF) after getting MS, not sure how possible this is because you kinda need the sword for quite a lot before you can get MS (or even skull hammer)

not a clue what to do, but first thing's first, get sail and go to DRI

Wind Temple in 16 minutes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzUY5ztTZxY

Skips a Small Key, and never rescues Makar.

GlitchesAndStuff wrote

Okay, I've just done it on Dolphin (hard to get it, took me ages). I'm on windfall now with no hearts. what should I try or do next.

so, a few things It would be cool to try is going back for hero's sword (from FF) after getting MS, not sure how possible this is because you kinda need the sword for quite a lot before you can get MS (or even skull hammer)

not a clue what to do, but first thing's first, get sail and go to DRI

Out of curiousity, would it be possible to hover to Ganon's chamber and get EMS a lot earlier?
Anyway, got a new theory for GT early. As Paraxade has proven, 2/2 MS is not what causes the RB to break. My theory being that the two things that do trigger the RB breaking CS are:
A.) 0/2 MS having been drawn with or without completing H1
B.) Darknut CS in MS Chamber having been activated and/or completed
The idea is that if we can find a way to activate the Darknut CS early--during H1 or otherwise--then the RB can be broken with 0/2 MS, though I do need ideas for activating this CS early. Any suggestions?  ???

Razor wrote

Out of curiousity, would it be possible to hover to Ganon's chamber and get EMS a lot earlier?

No. Ganondorf's chamber is in the same map as the Helmaroc battle, which is loaded when you go into the door at the end. In FF1, a scene starts there automatically, of course, so no chance of that...

But on the subject of the barrier breaking, 2/2 MS is DEFINITELY a flag. I tested it before, and none of the other swords can break the barrier, even at the point where 2/2 MS can.

Also, it's no theory that the Darknuts in the MS chamber being dead is a flag, it most certainly is a flag. The Darknut scene is triggered when you have the full Triforce, so we need the Triforce there, too. Also, the scene that opens the warp to Hyrule 3 is triggered when we have the full Triforce and 2/2 MS.

KlydeStorm wrote

No. Ganondorf's chamber is in the same map as the Helmaroc battle, which is loaded when you go into the door at the end. In FF1, a scene starts there automatically, of course, so no chance of that...

But on the subject of the barrier breaking, 2/2 MS is DEFINITELY a flag. I tested it before, and none of the other swords can break the barrier, even at the point where 2/2 MS can.

Also, it's no theory that the Darknuts in the MS chamber being dead is a flag, it most certainly is a flag. The Darknut scene is triggered when you have the full Triforce, so we need the Triforce there, too. Also, the scene that opens the warp to Hyrule 3 is triggered when we have the full Triforce and 2/2 MS.

It was just a small idea, no big deal. I guess I'll just keep on trying to come up with other theories on this break.

Klyde has done extensive testing on this so I tend to believe him when he talks about these things. My understanding of Hyrule 3 is-

-To be able to enter the warp to go to Hyrule 3, you need 2/2 MS and the completed Triforce.
-For the Darknuts to be in the basement, you need the completed Triforce.
-To make the electrical barrier in the main room in the castle disappear, you need to kill the Darknuts in the basement.
-To destroy the barrier, you need 2/2 MS and for the electrical barrier in the main room to disappear.

The reason it's broken when you skip Hyrule 1 is because the electrical barrier never appears, meaning the flag for it disappearing is never set, which therefore makes it impossible to destroy the barrier. So without barrier skip we absolutely need to properly draw the MS to beat the game. One possible solution we did some testing on was trying to pull the MS in Hyrule 2. While it is possible to get into the basement in its Hyrule 1 state during Hyrule 2, when you try to approach the MS, either the game freezes, or nothing happens. So it seems rather unlikely the ToG/Hyrule 1 skip is going to happen unless we get barrier skip, which negates everything that went into the ToG/Hyrule 1 skip anyway. Pretty shitty. The only way there will ever be a major (and helpful for speedrunning) break in Wind Waker will be barrier skip - at this point, being able to get past the barrier would let us finish the game during Hyrule 1, which will effectively skip absolutely everything following ToG - no FF2, Earth Temple, Wind Temple, or Triforce hunt. Getting past the barrier is going to require either some absurd precision and ingenuity, or a new clipping technique. I took a look at it a bit earlier and came up with a couple theories but mostly ended up empty, maybe I'll try again sometime soon.

Paraxade wrote

The only way there will ever be a major (and helpful for speedrunning) break in Wind Waker will be barrier skip - at this point, being able to get past the barrier would let us finish the game during Hyrule 1, which will effectively skip absolutely everything following ToG - no FF2, Earth Temple, Wind Temple, or Triforce hunt. Getting past the barrier is going to require either some absurd precision and ingenuity, or a new clipping technique. I took a look at it a bit earlier and came up with a couple theories but mostly ended up empty, maybe I'll try again sometime soon.

That's why I'm spending so much time on it. The truth about WW is that zombie hover can't get us everywhere, so we need to find some new stuff.

So the barrier skip is the last "barrier" to a new WW speed run?

I don't have much creativity or expirience when it comes to breaking games but i'll try to see what I can find when I eventually get a file there.
Also assuming we get a barrier skip and need forest water for Light Arrow skip do we need to get the water before ToG and be quick enough to make it there in 20 mins?

I dont known if ToG can be done in 20 minutes, count the time sailing etc. But i see some good breaks in ToG.

Fairy's can be a idea to pass barrier? like the slimy thing in oot, with a fairy you can pass throw the slimy. So my idea is: put a bomb in the correct distance, so, when the bomb hits link, link doesnt touch the barrier, now fairy revive link, and link pass the barrier or get hurted to the oposed side. I need to try it. I have a GBA with cable too

NOKAUBURE wrote

I dont known if ToG can be done in 20 minutes, count the time sailing etc. But i see some good breaks in ToG.

Fairy's can be a idea to pass barrier? like the slimy thing in oot, with a fairy you can pass throw the slimy. So my idea is: put a bomb in the correct distance, so, when the bomb hits link, link doesnt touch the barrier, now fairy revive link, and link pass the barrier or get hurted to the oposed side. I need to try it. I have a GBA with cable too

In fact we can already get behing the barrier. The problem is the invisible wall behind it.


Btw, if we find a way to skip Makar's help in WT, would it possible to skip earth temple?

Dashiamo wrote

So the barrier skip is the last "barrier" to a new WW speed run?

I don't have much creativity or expirience when it comes to breaking games but i'll try to see what I can find when I eventually get a file there.
Also assuming we get a barrier skip and need forest water for Light Arrow skip do we need to get the water before ToG and be quick enough to make it there in 20 mins?

I got the forest water right after collecting the BK in ToG and by the time that I beat Gohdan, solved MS puzzle, and saved, it had already been 5 mins. and I was pretty fast. I'll try to work on a forest water route for this after GT early is finished.
@MajoraMIM
It would seem so, but we'd need to get into the WT without Makar, skip the two times we need him, or find a way to get Makar to WT early.

to get Makar, you need the song from the kokiri guy? or the song isnt needed?

NOKAUBURE wrote

to get Makar, you need the song from the kokiri guy? or the song isnt needed?

I don't see the problem.

Majora MIM wrote

In fact we can already get behing the barrier. The problem is the invisible wall behind it.


Btw, if we find a way to skip Makar's help in WT, would it possible to skip earth temple?

Wait so there is the repulsive damage barrier then immediately an invisible wall?
So if I want to help I guess I should look into a way of clipping through the wall. We need a clipping method that doesn't involve ledges?

Dashiamo wrote

Wait so there is the repulsive damage barrier then immediately an invisible wall?
So if I want to help I guess I should look into a way of clipping through the wall. We need a clipping method that doesn't involve ledges?

Technically, there is a tiny bit of space between the RB and the invisible wall. Check it out if you're curious http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SfqTH1ZrW0g. I'm doing a bit of testing with ledge clipping to see if we can clip through the barrier and the wall, though an alternative way of clipping would be nice, as my method involves zombie hover, which means I need to buy one of those cables to attach my GBA to my GC.

Dashiamo wrote

So the barrier skip is the last "barrier" to a new WW speed run?

I don't have much creativity or expirience when it comes to breaking games but i'll try to see what I can find when I eventually get a file there.
Also assuming we get a barrier skip and need forest water for Light Arrow skip do we need to get the water before ToG and be quick enough to make it there in 20 mins?

Well it will probably be quicker to just get quiver and light arrows.


Btw. if we were to get barriere skip would Hyrule1 be faster or EMS-Hyrule2?

Razor wrote

which means I need to buy one of those cables to attach my GBA to my GC.

You do know that tingle won't help you in Hyrule, right?

Slowking wrote

Well it will probably be quicker to just get quiver and light arrows.


Btw. if we were to get barriere skip would Hyrule1 be faster or EMS-Hyrule2?


You do know that tingle won't help you in Hyrule, right?

Hyrule1 should be faster because I believe that H1 will be the only option to GT early. It's just an assumption for now though. I wasn't sure if tingle could help in Hyrule or not. As I don't have the cable, I also don't know the places that tingle can't help besides in GT.

Slowking wrote

Well it will probably be quicker to just get quiver and light arrows.

Can Phantom Ganon be damaged with the hero's sword to get to the light arrows? I haven't fought him in a while but I remember having to hit him once each time to make him drop the sword.

Edit: Just realised. Do we have to get MS to get outside to barrier? If so ignore my above stupidity.

Dashiamo wrote

Can Phantom Ganon be damaged with the hero's sword to get to the light arrows? I haven't fought him in a while but I remember having to hit him once each time to make him drop the sword.

Edit: Just realised. Do we have to get MS to get outside to barrier? If so ignore my above stupidity.

Phantom Ganon in FF can only be damaged with MS. So I assume that it's the same in Ganons Castle. But it should probably be tested when we have barriere skip.

If he can only be damaged by MS we will have to either do EMS or draw the MS, with all the cutscene that is involved...

Slowking wrote

Phantom Ganon in FF can only be damaged with MS. So I assume that it's the same in Ganons Castle. But it should probably be tested when we have barriere skip.

If he can only be damaged by MS we will have to either do EMS or draw the MS, with all the cutscene that is involved...

I'm pretty sure that only the MS can damage PG, though any sword can damage Ganondorf. Yep, I definitly think that ToG will be faster than EMS. How long does it even take to hover to FF2 for EMS?

18 minutes-ish?

Phazon wrote

18 minutes-ish?

Then is it even a question that running through ToG is definitly faster than hovering to FF2 to get EMS?

Razor wrote

Then is it even a question that running through ToG is definitly faster than hovering to FF2 to get EMS?

öhm yeah. I'm pretty sure 18 minutes-ish is from hovering into FF2 to Hyrule 2. No way hovering into FF2 takes that long... unless you have to hover from the next island. Could somebody clearify?

Anyway. EMS would save us getting Jabus Pearl, raising ToG, clearing ToG, all that cutscene crap of the master sword and clearing Hyrule castle from the enemies.
But ofcourse it would cost us hovering into FF2, clearing FF2 and that cutscene crap at Ganons and the unraised ToG.

Should be close...