WW Tricks and Glitches Discussion

Dashiamo wrote

So what are the current theories on early Ganons tower?

The goal of Ganon's tower early is to hover (or clip) over the repulsive barrier all around the castle.
There could be some options to test:
-Change direction during hovering, then you may can hover high enough to get behind. But there's no known way to turn in hover.
-Clip behind the wall that is behind the barrier. But Kazooie tested to walk on the other side and said that there's a force pushing you back to the castle.

note: I've already tried to hover inside the bridge.

you can't hover high enough to get over the tower. for some reason the barrier actually has a ceiling.

You cannot? I can easily levitate there. Or does it make some difference?

BTW really good job to breaking WW guys! I love all of you ^^

More information for that ganon castle early. About that barrier thing and that force what I sayed. I tested it more and I levitated over of that barrier thing. Then dropped other side of it and walked there. There was no any force to push you. When I get to the ganon's castle and got out then there is that barrier hurting you. That barrier is like that barrier around hyrule castle. It keep hurting link and he will always keep falling towards to hyrule castle. I hope this will help you guys.

Paraxade wrote

you can't hover high enough to get over the tower. for some reason the barrier actually has a ceiling.

I think we need to come up with new ways of ganon's castle early because the barrier is obviously to high to hover over. I have a better plan to test today. This will be the final key to speedrunning WW.

Majora MIM wrote

-Clip behind the wall that is behind the barrier. But Kazooie tested to walk on the other side and said that there's a force pushing you back to the castle.

Well I found this video on chutube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJCOYXy67bk&playnext_from=TL&videos=E6zatMU75Mw
Now hes using cheats to clip through, but even before he uses the speed cheat he only gets knocked back, not pulled to the castle.

Isn't there maybe an enemy somewhere behind there that could spawn a heart, so we don't have to change directions during the hover?

Btw. is there really no way to WW/Tetra clip through the damage barrier and then forest water clip through the invisible wall?

Slowking wrote

Btw. is there really no way to WW/Tetra clip through the damage barrier and then forest water clip through the invisible wall?

It would be somewhat pointless to use forest water to clip through the invisible wall because then we couldn't skip the light arrow/Phantom Ganon. Even so, there's no chest to use for storage for the clip.

Slowking wrote

Btw. is there really no way to WW/Tetra clip through the damage barrier and then forest water clip through the invisible wall?

I've tried that and atleast I couldn't get it to work.

Kazooie wrote

More information for that ganon castle early. About that barrier thing and that force what I sayed. I tested it more and I levitated over of that barrier thing. Then dropped other side of it and walked there. There was no any force to push you. When I get to the ganon's castle and got out then there is that barrier hurting you. That barrier is like that barrier around hyrule castle. It keep hurting link and he will always keep falling towards to hyrule castle. I hope this will help you guys.

The damage barrier extends everywhere outside of the circle around Hyrule Castle. You can cancel it by using the Wind Waker on the exact frame you stop flashing, just like you can up by the invisible wall.

KlydeStorm wrote

The damage barrier extends everywhere outside of the circle around Hyrule Castle. You can cancel it by using the Wind Waker on the exact frame you stop flashing, just like you can up by the invisible wall.

I don't thinking clipping through the barrier/invisible wall is going to be an option.

So just to be sure. Early tower is straight after ToG before we grab MS and restore colour?
Just wanted to be sure so next time I get the chance I can play a file up until that point for testing.

Also for anyone who can emulate WW can you post your specs because my comp doesn't seem to be able to run it fast enough to make it playable

Dashiamo wrote

So just to be sure. Early tower is straight after ToG before we grab MS and restore colour?
Just wanted to be sure so next time I get the chance I can play a file up until that point for testing.

Early GT is either then or after FF2, of which it would be more beneficial after completing ToG.

Razor wrote

Early GT is either then or after FF2, of which it would be more beneficial after completing ToG.

? ems -> ganons tower should be more beneficial.

Slowking wrote

? ems -> ganons tower should be more beneficial.

I'm sorry, Slowking, but I don't understand your question.

Not a question, a statement.

Slowking wrote

Not a question, a statement.

Awe, I see it now. I don't always remeber all the acronyms. I don't think that EMS will be of use in a speedrun because if its various crashes, but through in a P after the E and then you'll see something more useful.

EDIT:
I think I've figured out how to corrupt cutscenes in WW.

Razor wrote

I think I've figured out how to corrupt cutscenes in WW.

... Aren't you going to tell us?

KlydeStorm wrote

... Aren't you going to tell us?

Wow Klyde. This is the first time I recall you being interested in one of my theories. Of course I'll tell you. I just came up with the idea this evening, so I'll test it tomorrow. I also think that in an any% run we are going to need two bottles, but the bottle submarine is on the way from DR to FH so it shouldn't cost much time.

I'm somewhat interested by what you call it (though I don't think it'll live up to that name), but how could I ever show any interest in any of your theories when you never actually share anything about them besides what they might do? We hear one thing about them, and then never again until you eventually say how your theory worked after someone finds something. It's really aggravating. At least share what your theory was after you test it if you're worried about credit. Maybe someone else would have an idea of what to do with it. Stop keeping secrets.

Razor wrote

Wow Klyde. This is the first time I recall you being interested in one of my theories. Of course I'll tell you.

Razor wrote

I just came up with the idea this evening, so I'll test it tomorrow. I also think that in an any% run we are going to need two bottles, but the bottle submarine is on the way from DR to FH so it shouldn't cost much time.

...wtf

Razor wrote

Awe, I see it now. I don't always remeber all the acronyms. I don't think that EMS will be of use in a speedrun because if its various crashes, but through in a P after the E and then you'll see something more useful.

ähm various? The only ones I'm aware of are sounding the bell on tog and the master sword room. but the master sword room not consistently.
We'd never visit any of these places if we had barrier skip.

KlydeStorm wrote

I'm somewhat interested by what you call it (though I don't think it'll live up to that name), but how could I ever show any interest in any of your theories when you never actually share anything about them besides what they might do? We hear one thing about them, and then never again until you eventually say how your theory worked after someone finds something. It's really aggravating. At least share what your theory was after you test it if you're worried about credit. Maybe someone else would have an idea of what to do with it. Stop keeping secrets.

I have tried to give out my ideas for testing, but no one ever shows any interest. Then a few weeks later someone finds something with a theory practically identical to mine and gives me no credit for idea help. It's more aggravating for me then for any of you. I don't make false find claims. I still need to test it but here's my plan: I was thinking the other day that there has to be some way of distorting/corrupting the cutscene where you draw the MS, which made me think of OoT. The only recapturable bottle item in WW is the forest firefly, so I was thinking of doing corruption similar to OoT.
Hopefully, here's where I'll probably lose you, by corrupting the scene you'll be able to draw the MS, but not activate the cutscene so it's still in the pedestal. Drawing it multiple times with this could--hopefully-- result in EPMS; game overiting. This is the most likely of my many EPMS+GT early theories.
@Slowking
I hope this also helps you get the idea.

Razor wrote

I have tried to give out my ideas for testing, but no one ever shows any interest.

Well, generally, you have to give us an idea of what it is you're doing before we can show interest.

Razor wrote

I still need to test it but here's my plan: I was thinking the other day that there has to be some way of distorting/corrupting the cutscene where you draw the MS, which made me think of OoT. The only recapturable bottle item in WW is the forest firefly, so I was thinking of doing corruption similar to OoT.
Hopefully, here's where I'll probably lose you, by corrupting the scene you'll be able to draw the MS, but not activate the cutscene so it's still in the pedestal. Drawing it multiple times with this could--hopefully-- result in EPMS; game overiting. This is the most likely of my many EPMS+GT early theories.

Yeah, corruption isn't really the right word, it's more of displacing Link during the scenes to potentially mess them up.

I'm not sure that will work, because the moment the scene starts, it changes the flag that removes the Master Sword from the pedestal. I know this because when you try to use Storage on the scene, the scene will start anyways, and Link will get crushed (for some reason), and the Master Sword is gone. You don't even get it, so you're trapped forever.

Another thing though, I don't think getting it multiple times will "upgrade" it, as the Hero's Sword, 0/2 Master Sword, 1/2 Master Sword, and 2/2 Master Sword are all different items. The scenes that give them to you do just that, give you that item. It isn't the same item being upgraded. So, if we can somehow fight Molgera with say, the 0/2 Master Sword, we'll get 2/2 Master Sword rather than the 1/2 Master Sword. The game was programmed in a way that you couldn't get the power ups out of order.

However, I like the idea of using the Forest Firefly similar to the Fish to mess up scenes like in OoT. Unfortunately, what I'm thinking, is that the bottle swinging has higher priority over the scene, and it'll put the scene trigger off until after the animation ends.

You should still definitely test it.

KlydeStorm wrote

You should still definitely test it.

I did a little bit of testing with it today and the problem with it is that Link doesn't lurch forward while swinging the bottle like he does in OoT. I'm trying to come up with other theories concerning forest fireflies, but don't really have any yet. If you have any suggestions please feel free to tell me and I'll test them.

I'm not sure if it's possible but can you use a bomb to push you over the trigger then use the bottle?

Another idea is if you can hover to the trigger then use a bottle the frame you hit the ground to activate the CS.

I'm not sure if anything I'm saying is at all possible but I'm just throwing out ideas. I haven't had any time to really try stuff myself.

Dashiamo wrote

I'm not sure if it's possible but can you use a bomb to push you over the trigger then use the bottle?

Another idea is if you can hover to the trigger then use a bottle the frame you hit the ground to activate the CS.

I'm not sure if anything I'm saying is at all possible but I'm just throwing out ideas. I haven't had any time to really try stuff myself.

I also had the idea of using a bomb to push link into the cutscene. I'll test it, but I don't think it will work. You don't really need to hover to the cutscene activation you can just use the deku leaf, but I never thought of trying to use the bottle the second link hits the ground; it's probably TAS timing though, with either hover or the DL.

From what I see, TAS timing is more than just a 1 frame window to hit a button. Once you get to any real level of difficulty, that can be commonplace. If that is TAS timing, then Jiano pulling off TAS level input to duplicate bottles in the ss. Mind you, its not a trick you can keep doing in an ss, but a lot of segmenting tricks fit that just as well...

I just came up with a new idea today. If the ganondorf cutscene in FF2 gives you 0/2 MS early, then would a cutscene involving 2/2 MS give you EPMS? The only possible cutscene I could think of for this was the duel darknut battle in the MS room possibly. I'm not sure if it would give us EPMS and/or if it could be triggered early.

Razor wrote

The only possible cutscene I could think of for this was the duel darknut battle in the MS room possibly. I'm not sure if it would give us EPMS and/or if it could be triggered early.

It doesn't.

KlydeStorm wrote

It doesn't.

Thanks for telling me. I'm still testing a few ideas for early GT, but nothing is working. I'm really trying to avoid using forest water so we can still skip the light arrow.

so yeah... ToG/hyrule 1 skip dead ends in hyrule 3. you can't destroy the barrier. :/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vODpzjNc0M