WW Tricks and Glitches Discussion

mzxrules wrote

The boomerang lock-on thing is known. Not sure about the second one

All right.

Just did a WW dive off of the ledge and flew the deku leaf over.  When I hit a certain spot near the loading zone, the game did what would happen if I fell of the ledge with no windwaker dive, and teleported me back to the castle. So even if there was a spot to land, it still seems to not work.

Edit: I know most of this stuff is probably already known.  If it is known just let me know.  I'm new to Windwaker and speedrunning in general.


Edit 2:  Does the knockback barrier apply under the map? I looked at the picture on the tricks page and it wasn't very clear.  If not, would it be possible in a TAS to drop a bomb off the edge, WW dive under the map, land on the bomb when it explodes, and zombie hover up?

If you get hit by a bomb in the air, you fall down and theres nothing to land on :/

Pedalpowertoast wrote

If you get hit by a bomb in the air, you fall down and theres nothing to land on :/

Yeah, forgot that you had to land on something to do the trick. Still getting a hold of all of these tricks.
I should probably learn the game before I mess with this kind of stuff.

Not sure if this is useful, but I found a spot to get dry storage on the barrier side of Hyrule.  If you go onto the roof of the castle (via the method to get on the ledge on NTSC), you can WW dive off of the roof and get storage.

smellyfeetyouhave wrote

Not sure if this is useful, but I found a spot to get dry storage on the barrier side of Hyrule.  If you go onto the roof of the castle (via the method to get on the ledge on NTSC), you can WW dive off of the roof and get storage.  Might be useful to someone who knows how to exploit storage properly.  You could probably use bombs to push you off of the lower ledge to get storage as well.

Yes, GlitchesandStuff did some extensive experiments with dives off of the roof quite a while ago before dry storage was discovered. The problem is that even though we can get storage at multiple locations around Hyrule Castle, there is currently no way to exploit the properties of storage that would allow as to go through the barrier, as there are no doors for door cancel and no known ways to replicate the effects of door cancel without a door.

Sup, everyone. Last night Deadeyesx311 on Twitch told me there was a way to solve Hyrule puzzle with one block. I believed him and spent forever figuring out how it works. This is how it works.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71tRWqtIDMs

Storage has no effect on the block placement, it's entirely done by the game itself. This is not faster than vanilla, it's slower by ~10 seconds.

I saw someone sent a Zephos skip to Cosmo a moment ago

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqZvn4daQBs&list=HL1375750765&feature=mh_lolz

I started messing with it and  double storage is not needed, you have a chance of getting the cutscene anyway but is possible to do it with only one storage. I timed it and saves something like 30s or 40s if done perfectly, I did it in the video with second try storage and saved 30+ seconds (too lazy to record it again xD).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQ7CHCnAZj0

I tested this a little more with the guy who discover this and looks like depends of your position when you pull the wind waker, I think if the game don't have to change your position you get the skip... there is a chance to get half of the cutscene by the way, Zephos will talk to you once then the cutscene will end and the actor of Zephos will stay, you are free to move if that happen.
If you check the stone too far away you wont be able to get the song at all.

Edit: nevermind, seems to be random.

I'm gonna test this

s33y00 retimed a DRC storage route I tested a while ago and found it to be 40-45 seconds faster than the regular tunerless route.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=clzLWTBwklU
EDIT (full route): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufmkgdfWgNA

If you miss the jump slash off the block, you can't get back up, but it's very consistent if you get the timing down (s33y00 got it like 10 times in a row while testing this route).

EDIT: jump slash is actually not required, if you just hold up Link will get on the ledge.

The video says 52 seconds, but you need to get crushed under the table later to be able to climb the ladder, and this is about 9 seconds slower. If you miss the storage, you can still get storage with pots instead of climbing the ladder, which isn't too difficult with practice. You also have to pull out the block in the main room all the way out so it stays out when you come back.

tdutchnick96 wrote

Nice route. Is that part outside reliable or can you fall off quickly?

It's very reliable, can be 100% consistent with practice.

I played around with this sometime ago and I can't belive I did not think of going to the left, I feel like an idiot now xD.

By the way you can get storage using one of the vase in the lower level and you don't need the water to get across the lava after the chest storage, you can jump and land in the wall (I think that is what is happening, is kinda hard to tell).

Edit: s33y00 forgot to grab the key in the old route

nevermind

UYNiko wrote

By the way you can get storage using one of the vase in the lower level and you don't need the water to get across the lava after the chest storage, you can jump and land in the wall

It's faster to do the storage that s33y00 did. If you fail that, however, you can easily go for the pot storage as a backup.

Skipping the vase may be possible, but since storing the chest makes it impossible to see what's going on, it's a lot easier and safer to use the vase, since the lava is pretty much the only thing you can see on the screen.

EDIT: Tried this myself, wasn't too difficult. A bit risky since you can't see much, but definitely consistent and saves a few seconds.

For those of you thinking it's too risky because of the storage spot, here is the backup strat if you don't get swedish storage: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=veP6RVZ5wg0

Is easier to use the pot on the other side, it will not move too much, I used it yesterday on the race.

http://www.twitch.tv/uyniko/c/2734037

To be honest I don't know if is slower than the swedish storage.

Wierd thing happened today. Was battling the mighty Darknuts at the end of the game when i accidentally jumpslashed on of them and it caught on fire
http://www.twitch.tv/gymnast86/c/2735145

I found a way to get bombs early without the superswiming to greatfish, you need storage + chest storage using the chest at Dragon Roost (you are going to need a pear), superswim to the ship at outset (I went to Windfall first), climb the ship, get bombs... you will continue in Windfall.

Sadly I don't think this is usefull, after that I went to Outset and was Outset2 but was day... sadly Nayru is not there (there is no door), If Nayru would be there you could skip Greatfish :(

Edit: By the way you can enter Hyrule with only the Wind Waker using the chest storage, you need to superswim to FF2, enter to the door to Helmaroc King and then Zombie Hover to the loading zone using Helmaroc King (kinda tricky).

tdutchnick96 wrote

Probably slower. Bombs early doesn't save any time at all.

Nayru? It's Jabun ;). But no, it's not useful because you can't skip the Greatfish isle cutscene. Jabun is triggered to be at Outset by watching it.

You got to be damn crazy to do that.

It's probably slower, but we don't know if bombs early saves time or not. What we do know is that if it does happen, it'll make the speedrun a lot more RNG based and annoying (Kalle Demos fight, double storage off beetle, etc.)

You CAN skip the Greatfish Isle cutscene using drowning strats. The problem is that doing this makes it impossible to beat the game after.

I've done EMS on emulator without bombs. It's frame perfect timing but it's definitely doable to get an angle. Sadly EMS doesn't let you beat the game.

I had a setup for the helmaroc knockback a long time ago for EMS without bombs/leaf/skull hammer etc

Activating Endless Night via the drowning method doesn't make the game unbeatable. If you superswim and grind up against the island, then save warp before it fully loads you'll be placed on the beach upon loading the save and the rest of the cutscene plays out fine. Also, even if you just sail to the island/BoG warp you can still beat the game, it just takes ages for Link to be moved to his correct actor position (as seen in Cosmo's 30 minute cutscene vid).

So gymnast86 and I have been testing various wrong warp theories but none of them worked out since Wind Waker likes to not allow 2 warps to happen on the same frame. In ToG, however, there is a loading zone that can be accessed through the door via chest storage. If you throw the statue off the ledge and then roll towards the door (need AR for this to be fast enough) and time it right you can get the loading zone and void out to happen on the same frame. Hence, void warp.

http://www.twitch.tv/wooferzfg1/c/2745356

Oh and by the way, it's not useful like in OoT unless we find a better spot for it. But cool regardless.

That doesn't look like a void warp to me. The coordinates that you start at on entering the mini boss room don't seem to be different from the failed attempt at the start of your video. The thing that is different is that you've replaced the running forward sequence with the void out sequence, which is interesting in itself, but isn't going to let you warp anywhere.

Would it be possible to trigger another loading zone on the same frame as the game tries to reload you from a void out (so like around when the screen has faded fully black)? So ideally, even if the coordinates are updated on the same frame as you touch the loading zone, the game will have already read the previous area's coordinates. I guess it depends on whether the void out gets queued behind loading the next area or whether you can activate a loading zone once the void out has begun... A lot of ifs, too many for Wind Waker I'm guessing.

EDIT: Looked into this a bit more. Loading zones disable from voiding out so the entire above paragraph is redundant. Having storage while voiding out does nothing to the loading zone disable. One semi interesting thing I found, though, is that having storage does stop the game from disabling the animation that plays as Link goes into a loading zone (pretty much always walking or swimming forwards) which overwrites the getting up animation that typically play upon reload after a void warp. Additionally, if you get reset somewhere where the loading zone animation isn't appropriate (i.e. swimming forward while being in the boat is not a valid action) then the game will just spawn Link a little bit up in the air (much like swimming out of or into Islet of Steel). Not useful in anyway, though.

Thought I'd just add my failed attempt at Barrier Skip.

The idea:
Disable the knockback of the barrier with the death sequence and then have a bomb push Link off so you can start the zombie hover.

So I got storage on the roof of Hyrule castle easy enough, and leafed onto the railing. I killed myself with a bomb to put myself just in front of the barrier, zombie hovered up and forward a bit so I was inside the barrier then fell and pulled a bomb as I was falling. I manage to get Link to die on the same frame as the barrier tried to knock him back (in the same way as with pulling out the Wind Waker). The bomb pushed Link off the railing and back to a playable state, but the barrier knockback was still active. No idea why it behaves differently...

Matti wrote

Thought I'd just add my failed attempt at Barrier Skip.

The idea:
Disable the knockback of the barrier with the death sequence and then have a bomb push Link off so you can start the zombie hover.

So I got storage on the roof of Hyrule castle easy enough, and leafed onto the railing. I killed myself with a bomb to put myself just in front of the barrier, zombie hovered up and forward a bit so I was inside the barrier then fell and pulled a bomb as I was falling. I manage to get Link to die on the same frame as the barrier tried to knock him back (in the same way as with pulling out the Wind Waker). The bomb pushed Link off the railing and back to a playable state, but the barrier knockback was still active. No idea why it behaves differently...

I've already tested that. It's because the game hates you.

So I played around with Abahbob's graph on ZSR and used an estimate for the average speed at each second to make a graph of superswim distance vs. charging time. It seems like the optimal release time is with 1/3 of the air meter full, or 20 seconds into the charge. Most runners already charge for that long, but it's cool to see a graph of it I guess.

Original imageLoad image

If you want to be more optimal, get it down to 1/3 and get an air refill. That'll give you a decent boost of speed. Although it's pretty hard on most spots.

It's possible to do the DRC hover Tunerless but it requires bombs. Basically, get storage, hover up to the warp pot and pull a bomb while you're in the air. The bomb will open the warp pot while you're dieing.

That's a really cool strat Matti

Matti wrote

It's possible to do the DRC hover Tunerless but it requires bombs. Basically, get storage, hover up to the warp pot and pull a bomb while you're in the air. The bomb will open the warp pot while you're dieing.

That is a really good idea... I think a possible route for that could be something like this:

SS to N.Triangle +30s.
Get Bombs.
SS to DRI +30s.
Get into DRC, take some damage and do that hover, die and get into the warp +90ish(?).
Probably you want to SS to Birds Peak from DRI and do a SS from E.Triangle to N.Triangle to place the last pearl, should be about the same.

Takes you about 3 mins to get up there with the new DRC route... so if done prefectly should save 30s(?)... seems about right... it would be cool if you were able to use bombs for something else.

UYNiko wrote

That is a really good idea... I think a possible route for that could be something like this:

SS to N.Triangle +30s.
Get Bombs.
SS to DRI +30s.
Get into DRC, take some damage and do that hover, die and get into the warp +90ish(?).
Probably you want to SS to Birds Peak from DRI and do a SS from E.Triangle to N.Triangle to place the last pearl, should be about the same.

Takes you about 3 mins to get up there with the new DRC route... so if done prefectly should save 30s(?)... seems about right... it would be cool if you were able to use bombs for something else.

Might be faster but I doubt anyone will bother with this since it's no tuner. And you (probably) can't do it in Wind Waker HD either.

What are these noises in the video?