SS: Trick Research & Discovery

Tricks found so far (contains spoilers)

General:

Clawshot vine clipping
High Flip Collection 1, Collection 2


Faron Woods:

Roll into the tree at the bottom of the slope with the deku baba to lower a vine to get to the kikwi elder faster
Don't talk to the kikwi elder until after finding all kikwis
Deep woods without slingshot (currently useless)
Deep woods goddess cube warp

Skyview Temple:

Vine skip in left water room
Last room vines timesaver

Eldin Volcano:

BiT warp to digging mitts cave
Stun the first fire seal with slingshot or beetle to avoid the cutscene of him going in the hole
Bomb crack early
Save at the bird statue near earth temple before starting the keys pieces, get the piece at the bottom last and deathwarp back to the bird statue

Earth Temple:

Skip pushing one side of the rising platform
Slope timesaver with stamina conservation

Lanayru Desert:

Mine entry skip, gorge early, north desert early
Early Tree of Life seed
Snail platform skips (obsolete)
Stone cache/east desert early

Lanayru Mining Facility:

Bomb box and slingshot timeshift stone in first big room
Deathwarp after gust bellows
BiT warp to left side of main room early
Jump over spikes in sand room
Ride mine cart to skip other mine carts
Save at the bird statue near the boss door before doing the above trick, then deathwarp back after the boss key

Lake Floria early: Method 1 Method 2 (faster)

Ancient Cistern:

Skip most of basement
Early boss key (currently useless unless we find a way out)

Sand Ship:

Save at first bird statue, deathwarp after every key (including boss key)

Going to Fire Sanctuary:

Scrapper escort skip

Fire Sanctuary:

After Mogma Mitts, save at statue near key door then deathwarp after getting the next key to avoid rescuing the 2nd mogma and map
Early boss key
Save at statue near boss door and deathwarp after boss key (can't be done with early boss key above)

Bokoblin Base (getting fire dragons song):
Skip getting slingshot back
Whip first (useless)

Sky keep:

Clawshot clip to skip all of lava room
Precise bow shot in desert room
North/East Elbow room (three switch puzzle) can be skipped logically. Strategy

Misc Stuff:
BiT - is now super useful

I tried BiT for a while in the demo, and it didn't work. I could have had the timing wrong though so I don't know. It's kind of inefficient to test for BiT in the demo because every time you fail you have to restart the skyloft section and go through a 1-3 minute cutscene.

Today or tomorrow I will go through the dungeon section again though (I just fuc*ed around the first time), and if I find a void I will probably try some more there, since the skyloft drop might not be a traditional void.

Oh and a bit obvious, but ISG doesnt work (the traditional way at least, since swinging your sword anywhere near a bomb blows it up).

thundrio wrote

I tried BiT for a while in the demo, and it didn't work. I could have had the timing wrong though so I don't know. It's kind of inefficient to test for BiT in the demo because every time you fail you have to restart the skyloft section and go through a 1-3 minute cutscene.

Today or tomorrow I will go through the dungeon section again though (I just fuc*ed around the first time), and if I find a void I will probably try some more there, since the skyloft drop might not be a traditional void.

Oh and a bit obvious, but ISG doesnt work (the traditional way at least, since swinging your sword anywhere near a bomb blows it up).

The last room in the dungeon, with the boss door. It has a void. And it should be considered a legit one aswell. (if the skyloft one works differently, which wouldn't surprise me that much because of the ability to fly and such)

Also, the item in the dungeon is completely useless. You do not have to use it even once, you can easily make it all the way to the boss door without it.

And bombs doesn't not seem to give you any height while exploding. (I've tried running up against wall, and get blown up by a bomb in the process in order to reach a higher area, but I fly down instead of up)

No more shield dropping. Link just put away the bomb.
Note that you also can pick up bombs and put them away before they blow up.

Backflipping/sidehoping is almost as fast as walking. Backwalking on the other hand is very, very slow.

You do not recoil when attacking with your sword.

you can pull out the sail directly after letting go of a vine. There is re-grab delay on vines, even if you pull out the sail between.
From what I can tell, you do not clip at all while grabbing it.

Crawling spots works differently from any other zelda game. You can turn around however you want inside of them, entering them is also very different when it comes to collision. I entered one while things still blocked it (I got pushed inbetween and came inside. It was hard to exit it again due to the things blocking, but it was possible after turning around a bit)

This might spoil one of the items for people (I got it with Ocarina/Wiird).


It IS possible to shoot through solid walls with the clawshots. The game seems to have some detection that disallows you to shoot with the clawshot when you are to close to a surface of some sorts. After running around for a while, I managed to find 1 spot where the clawshot was inside of a eye statue (the room with 3 eyes on the wall), the one to the left to be exact. And I could shoot through it, and hit the eye on the other side. So, if someone finds a workaround which allows you to shoot with the clawshot no matter what you aim against, then it should be possible to shoot through any object in the game. All that is required is a way to allow you to shoot with the clawshot when it is inside of an object.
You do not seem to clip through vines when using clawshot either.

This game will be one of the harder ones to break (as we are all finding out). Clawshot through walls should cause some sequence breaking, assuming there's a target for it in the "unreachable" room (either designated target or torch?).

What I'm happy with is we won't have to sidehop through speedruns. As Cloud said, walking is fastest. It's like TP in that way

Bombs seem as though Nintendo made sure that no glitches would be possible with them. I'm going to attempt a drop-down into a corner clip with the bomb, see if it blasts me OoB.

10 days left for U.S

TomNook120 wrote

This game will be one of the harder ones to break

How do you imagine that? From my perspective all the new items + wii motion plus sword control means it is more likely they won't test it all properly.

And the fact that CloudMax has already found a break (maybe two if I am interpreting what he is saying about crawlspaces correctly) just a few days into the demo's leak means it will be broken wide open.

Damn we just like to destroy games. But im sure we can easily sequence break the game.

thundrio wrote

How do you imagine that? From my perspective all the new items + wii motion plus sword control means it is more likely they won't test it all properly.

And the fact that CloudMax has already found a break (maybe two if I am interpreting what he is saying about crawlspaces correctly) just a few days into the demo's leak means it will be broken wide open.

I don't doubt the testing will be poor, in fact I'm counting on it XD

TomNook120 wrote

This game will be one of the harder ones to break

I do not think that'll be the case. I am pretty sure that when we get access to the entire game, we'll find a lot of different breaks & glitches.
We barely have anything available in the demo to test different things.

Another reason is that we do not even have access to all items. There is more items in the game that we do not have, even with the use of ocarina/wiird. One of them is in a trailer that I saw earlier.

Quote

I don't doubt the testing will be poor, in fact I'm counting on it XD

This game is supposed to be huge, and it has a lot more mechanics than any other zelda game. It will be impossible to test everything properly. I mean, they couldn't do it in OoT, MM, WW & TP. I am pretty sure SS wont be any different.

There is a big difference between a group of 10-20 testers playing a game collectively for maybe 500 hours a week for a few months who aren't 10% the player that Cosmo, Kazooie or Jiano are. Compared to millions of people who can play the game for an unlimited amount of time. When testing any program you need to do acceptance, boundary and extreme testing. Acceptance is the easiest and most important form of testing to do, with boundary being very difficult to test and extreme forms of testing being almost impossible.

there's a reason they fill so many places with invisible walls.

So I have tried BiT a little, but I have never done it in any of the other games, so I dont know if it is the games fault or my fault, but most likely my fault. Because the game dosent "insta-black-out" when you reset, it fades out (like the others do). So yeah, there might be hope.

CloudMax wrote

Also, the item in the dungeon is completely useless. You do not have to use it even once, you can easily make it all the way to the boss door without it.

Yes it's useless in the dungeon, but it is required later in the Lanayru Desert/Mining Facility, if not in other places as well.

Speed trick in the last dungeon (contains some spoilers, no major story spoilers though) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NcEsfCe1ufs

Edit: Also, if there ever is a speedrun of this, it MUST be done on hero mode (like 2nd quest) because you then have the ability to skip cutscenes.  I'm not sure what else is different about hero mode but I doubt it would affect the decision to speedrun it on that mode.

More stuff about hero mode:

-you take double damage
-unlike TP where you could skip pretty much every cutscene, it seems like you can only skip some cutscenes, though they mostly seem to be the long ones
-the beginning is slightly different
-the time from your first file is carried over to your hero file (>_>) so if hero mode is speedrunned, it will need manual timing

I did a test run on hero to the first dungeon and got 58:11.  Near 50 is probably possible.

Uh, 50 minutes to get to the first dungeon?  This game doesn't sound very immersive so far :s

Wait until you get later into the game, it gets much better.

Also, i think I have a good fast strategy for the final boss (spoilers) - On his first phase, when he does his 2 way swing, shield both times and then slash him 2 times.  He'll repeat the attack and you can repeat slashing him, and continue the cycle until his 2nd phase.  Sometimes he'll break the cycle but it usually works.  Not sure how useful that would be in a real speedrun because you probably wont have a good shield (or a shield at all?)

A speedrun on Hero mode has to be a New Game+ categorie, because you keep all your collectible items which can be used to upgrade your weapons, gadgets & potions AND to make unlimited money by selling them.

I didn't notice any big speedrun tricks in my 1st playthrough, though...I only respawned on a 'not supposed to get on' rock wall after jumping into the fire by accident at the very beginning of Eldin Volcano, useless in this area but maybe re-creatable in more useful locations, dunno.

Oh, and for my live stream of my 2nd playthrough, this time on hard mode: http://www.ustream.tv/channel/the-legend-of-zelda-skyward-sword---playthrough

I have also been testing this game few times now. Dungeon before temple of time and after that dungeon cutscnenes where zelda give you harp and escape to the past. I got to loading zone leading out of dungeon with cheats and confirmed that cutscenes indeed works and game goes on normally. That would same some time if we could find our way there somehow throught wall. But likely we need that dungeon item somewhere in the game later (forgot what item it was in third dungeon).

Also I tested you can do early dungeons and loading zones are there. You don't need to do that stupid quest stuff if we can somehow skip them.

Just pointing things out. If this game have some breaking glitches this would be good game to speedrun.

ZFG wrote

Also, i think I have a good fast strategy for the final boss (spoilers) - On his first phase, when he does his 2 way swing, shield both times and then slash him 2 times.  He'll repeat the attack and you can repeat slashing him, and continue the cycle until his 2nd phase.  Sometimes he'll break the cycle but it usually works.  Not sure how useful that would be in a real speedrun because you probably wont have a good shield (or a shield at all?)

(spoilers) - I always only shielded 1 time during the first phase, and attacked twice directly after. It works just as well as when you shield twice. It is also possible to hit in between his attacks & your shielding to make it even faster, but that is more difficult. You can beat this boss very, very fast. But it gets more difficult if you want to do it faster.
Also, in hero mode (newgame+ category) you'd start with all the resources from your previous file, so you'd be able to upgrade all your items to the last level instantly after you get them. Which means that you'd be able to get goddess shield before the last boss without any problems. This is only on hero mode though. Unless people find a very good way to farm the resources during the actual run/route, we probably wont have a shield available that doesn't break I think.

Lake Floria early frome me. This neat little trick also leads to oob in Faron Woods. I don't know yet what this skip will do. But I'm almost sure you can skipping climbing to big tree and going to lake floria normal way. So this maybe saves alot of time. Happy watching! :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGbcUMFv3jI

EDIT: I also found this from youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vbv1XE1p-Q&feature=related

This trick let you get to the normal side of lake floria but you get stuck there if you don't have dive ability. I tested this.

Kazooie wrote

Lake Floria early frome me. This neat little trick also leads to oob in Faron Woods. I don't know yet what this skip will do. But I'm almost sure you can skipping climbing to big tree and going to lake floria normal way. So this maybe saves alot of time. Happy watching! :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGbcUMFv3jI

EDIT: I also found this from youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vbv1XE1p-Q&feature=related

This trick let you get to the normal side of lake floria but you get stuck there if you don't have dive ability. I tested this.

Seriously. That's just awesome.

I was starting to doubt that there would be such breaks since I couldn't figure out a single place in the game that is possible to access early because you're not allowed to get even remotely close to the area. I didn't even think about Lake Floria.

What makes it so weird is that you do not really perform any kind of glitch. You just run over a wall and boom, you're able to get OoB. (with the help of a jumpslash ofc) xD

Also, I am very interested in the second video. I have done the part that is in the video myself (but I used moonjump to get out of bounds, just to prove that it would be possible to get to the lake if somehow managed to get got OoB, but I never managed to.) So the important part of the trick is missing, the video only display the part that anyone could figure out how, since you can get there by hanging on the edge instead of walking on the fence. You can even walk right next to the fence most of the way. So there is multiple ways of getting there from OoB, And all of them are quite logical. =/

Kazooie wrote

Lake Floria early frome me. This neat little trick also leads to oob in Faron Woods. I don't know yet what this skip will do. But I'm almost sure you can skipping climbing to big tree and going to lake floria normal way. So this maybe saves alot of time. Happy watching! :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGbcUMFv3jI

EDIT: I also found this from youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vbv1XE1p-Q&feature=related

This trick let you get to the normal side of lake floria but you get stuck there if you don't have dive ability. I tested this.

Awesome! I just tested this a bit myself on my Hero Mode savefile where I luckily saved just before the first silent realm.

Get into Lake Floria before you get the Water Dragon's Scale: The temple will be open, but you can't access it because you can't spin jump out of the water and the Water Dragon is not in her kettle....
Get into Lake Floria after you get the Water Dragon's Scale: The temple will be blocked by the waterfall (which strangely appears now...) but now the Water Dragon is in her kettle and you could talk to her like you've gone the normal way and she tells you what you have to do for her...

So yes, you skip the Great Tree and the normal way to access Lake Floria :)!

That is very good to hear you can skip that stupid big tree climbing and going to lake floria normal way. This trick will definitely save some time then!

You also said water fall wasn't there. If we can get access to fouth dungeon early somehow. We might be able to get whip early because you only need sword in that dungeon to get it. Idk does it have any use if you can get that. It would be also great if we can beat dungeon without diving ability, what would that lead to?

EDIT:
I also tried this and confirmed what Burning Death said. So we can skip big tree climbing and normal way to lake floria, which is slower. Idk how much time this saves in speedrun.

I also tested early whip with leviation code. In dungeon we need get one small key which is on small ledge in the chest. You can't get to the chect normal way because there is tree barriers underwater and we don't have spin ability. So only way to get that key is somehow make longer jump to ledge from above of chest or bomb boost ourself up there somehow. If we can that key and somehow also get inside of temple we would have whip early. Then idk does it have any use yet....

I've been messing around with cheats to see if I could find something.
Clipping through the door in the past wont take you to the area of the last boss. You have to interact with the door.
And if you clip through the small door that leads to the forest while you're in the past, it takes you back to the future, as if you entered the gate of time. It is odd. I have no idea why there is even a loading zone there. Because there isn't supposed to be one. Doors only take you to different areas when you interact with them they do not have loading zones behind them.
When you're in a trial (silent realm), all loading zones gets removed.

I'm also very, very close to finding a way to get OoB in the south section of the faron woods, which allows you to get to lake Floria early through the normal path. (Not the back entrance). Maybe it isn't possible, maybe it is. It feels like it is possible, but it is damn difficult if it turns out to be possible. (You jump onto a tree from a stone fence, to the left of the Lake Floria entrance, and then jump from the tree to get OoB.)
Problem is, I managed to jump onto a branch, but I slide down from it. If I can get to the center of the tree somehow before sliding down from the branch, I would be able to get OoB.
I've been really, really close a few times, I once managed to do a second jump after landing on the branch, but it resulted in me jumping past the tree.

I have no idea if is even useful since we have Kazooie's trick already. But maybe it could end up being useful for something else.


You can't get the bottle from the potion shop before you have your bag either (I got into the bazaar with the clip cheat). The conversation will get bugged.
If you try to buy a item (like the shield) before you have a bag, nothing happens.
So trying to get an item before you get the bag does not seem to be possible at all.
And many other weird things...
(It is possible to get goddess sword early with the clip cheat, but it will make it impossible to get the bird later on, so you're stuck on skyloft.)
So I can't seem to find any real possible sequence breaks, even with the use of cheats. Not yet anyways.

I wonder if it's possible to get the sacred water needed for the dragon before she says she needs it?

EA wrote

I wonder if it's possible to get the sacred water needed for the dragon before she says she needs it?

I have a feeling that you'll just get regular water from the same spot if you try to get it early.
I'll check during my next playthrough though!

There is a few other thing's I'm gonna try aswell (related to the water dragon)

I checked the sacred water thing yesterday, it's normal water until you actually talk to the water dragon.

Here is a alternate method for Floria Waterfall early that I found.
It is much faster than Kazooies method, and it is extremely easy to pull off.
It uses Brickguy360Gs trick to get up onto the fence, so he deserves full credits for that part.
When I were up on the fence, I noticed that it was possible to get OoB with the use of a second jumpslash towards the hill.
Note: A jumpslash is not required. A good angled autojump gives you enough distance & height. The jumpslash just make it easier.
With a few practice jumps, you can easily do it without a jumpslash, making this a few seconds faster.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EScZ7IPlf6w

I re-recorded it without a jumpslash since I figured that it was pointless. The jump is extremely easy if you know how to do it.

I also have some information what I have tested with cheats so far. You can get to fire dragon early with levitation and with infinite healt codes. And suprise cutscnenes works and you get part of the hero song of the hero, and even without harp. After cutscenes mountain is back normal but will have that actor set what is made for the last part of the game after you normally get song of the hero. There is flying things what you can clawshot and there are harder enemies as well.

Door to second temple is closed if you haven't opened it yet. One interesting point is you can get adventure pouch chest from the chest. Normally you get rest of your items there. This time it act like you get normal adventure pouch set and only thing what  I noticed if you have anything in bottle, they will get empty. Sadly you can't do SB with this. Fi tells you about getting last parts of song of the hero but if you go to other areas nothing happens, they are normal.

If this trick would be possible we need to get past Fi text barrier before loading zone. If you can jump far enough you will get to loading point. Then second part is to get fire dragon loading zone somehow. And you run out of hearts at this point anyway. Maybe in future with some awesome new tricks.

Kazooie wrote

I also have some information what I have tested with cheats so far. You can get to fire dragon early with levitation and with infinite healt codes. And suprise cutscnenes works and you get part of the hero song of the hero, and even without harp. After cutscenes mountain is back normal but will have that actor set what is made for the last part of the game after you normally get song of the hero. There is flying things what you can clawshot and there are harder enemies as well.

Door to second temple is closed if you haven't opened it yet. One interesting point is you can get adventure pouch chest from the chest. Normally you get rest of your items there. This time it act like you get normal adventure pouch set and only thing what  I noticed if you have anything in bottle, they will get empty. Sadly you can't do SB with this. Fi tells you about getting last parts of song of the hero but if you go to other areas nothing happens, they are normal.

If this trick would be possible we need to get past Fi text barrier before loading zone. If you can jump far enough you will get to loading point. Then second part is to get fire dragon loading zone somehow. And you run out of hearts at this point anyway. Maybe in future with some awesome new tricks.

Well, what if you try to get the dragon early, right after you get the earrings? This would make it so that you do not need to worry about that.
What we need is a way to get over to the dragon early, and that would be a major break. It would let us skip the sequence where you loose all your items. Doing it before you get the earrings is not that likely.

I wonder what happens if you get 9 pouch slots. Probably nothing.. but still...

Will you still be able to dig up the 5 key parts if you visit the dragon before, or will the digging spots go away?