100% definition

I've been curious how 100% would be defined in this game. These seem like a given for any 100%:

-All items
-All heart pieces/heart containers
-All main wallet upgrades/gratitude crystals

Then these all seem like they could feasibly be part of the definition to me:

-All primary item upgrades
-All medals
-All empty bottles
-All goddess cubes/goddess cube chests
-All pouch slots
-Beedle wallet upgrades
-Hylian Shield

My personal idea of 100% includes all of those, but it's obviously up for debate. What do you guys think?

I also believe that the things you listed should be the 100% definition.

oh i forgot hylian shield. added to the first post.

I think:

-All 20 heart containers (via collecting all HP's and HC's)
-All B items with all upgrades applied
-Bomb bag, seed bag, quiver with max upgrades
-Largest wallet with the +900 upgrade
-All bottles
-Hylian Shield
-8 pouch slots

Maybe all medals but to me, they're only used to achieve to above things. They don't really allow Link to do/use anything new.

I strongly disagree with having to trigger and open all goddess cubes/chests. Some of them have 2 of the same medal, most of them are just rupees.

6 pouch slots? why 6? that seems arbitrary when there's a total of 8...

20 heart containers is kinda weird to me because of the two heart medals... if you require the two heart medals do you also require all the other medals? or if you do require the two heart medals, do you just have to collect them, or do you also have to equip them? like i said, it's kinda weird. the one that makes the most sense to me is you have to collect it but you don't necessarily have to equip it (which is part of all medals).

i disagree with needing bomb bag/seed bag/quiver. those items are disposable, there's an infinite number of them, you can sell them at the item check... it just doesn't fit for me.

I meant 8 pouches sry.

And by 20 heart containers I meant via HC and HP collecting only.

I see no reason at all not to buy and upgrade the seed bag, bomb bag, and quiver. They are upgradable and have always been in 100% runs in past Zelda's. Just because you can buy more than one, doesn't matter. You can have multiple of the same medal too. Sellability is not really relevent either imo.

I can dig why you'd want 1 of each medal, but all goddess cubes/chest gets a big thumbs down from me.

i disagree with it because they're disposable items. if we're going to require buying and upgrading those then we need to require buying and upgrading the wooden/iron/sacred shields too, and that just seems dumb to me.

it's different imo in other zelda games where they're limited, permanent collectibles. similarly, the reason i was thinking all medals is because they're limited.

The wooden, iron, and sacred shields are step-up items to the final Hylian Shield, so of course tehy are skipped.. just like the goron bracelet is skipped in OoT because there's a better final item that does the same thing.

The seed bag, bomb bag, and quiver do not lead to a better item. You buy them, upgrade them and they're are as good as they can be. They work exactly like past upgradable ammo-holders except that you can have more than one and you can sell them.

As for disposability, you can easily lose a tunic or shield in OoT after already getting them, but they're still required for 100%.

Final word: I'm happy with whatever definition that's decided as long as godess cubes/chests are not all required and that only 1 of each medal is needed.

Personally I mostly agree with Paraxade. Anything you can get an unlimited number of should not count (anything buyable at the bazaar, basically). That is the reason for not getting the other shields, not because they step-up into the Hylian Shield (they don't). I would say get all the medals too as they are a limited resource.

I do not agree with opening all the goddess chests. However we should hit all the cubes.

Someone should check if you can sell the Hylian Shield and then get it again from Lanayru. If so I would say it doesn't count either (though obviously we would want -a- shield for speed purposes).

I'd personally say that goddess cubes should be required in a 100% run.
Sure, some people hate activating them.
But getting all the cubes can be compared with getting all the skulltulas in OoT.
It'd just be stupid not to get them. They are a big part of the game.
Maybe not opening all the chests, but you should activate them in my opinion.

It'd also make routes and such more interesting, as we probably would end up finding tricks related to getting cubes faster, which I'm really looking forward too.

Heart container medals should also be required. I would never in my life accept a zelda file as 100% if two heart containers are missing. No matter what.

I am not to sure about collecting all medals though. Normally I'd say that it is required, since they are limited items that can't be sold to the bank, etc. which means that they are collectables. And I usually go by the rule that all collectables are required for a 100%.

What about dungeon maps? They are also limited items that can't be sold or disposed of. I myself don't think that it is needed in a 100% run but I wanted to mention it since it wasn't brought up yet.

Runnerguy2489 wrote

What about dungeon maps? They are also limited items that can't be sold or disposed of. I myself don't think that it is needed in a 100% run but I wanted to mention it since it wasn't brought up yet.

That is actually a valid point.
You can skip about half of every dungeon by skipping the dungeon maps.
This is because in the first playthrough you "need" them to progress. They're actually helpful this time around.
I am not sure about adding them in 100% either. But sure, I'd actually say that we should get them, but I know that most people will be against this.
It is just that we skip so much of the dungeons by skipping the maps, and that just feels wrong to me.

However, most OoT players are used to skipping as much as possible, so I can understand if people do not want to collect maps and such.

Activating all cubes makes nooooo sense. We should only activate and open the chests that contain required items for 100%. If we decided to open them all, so much time would be spent just opening unneeded rupee chests, there's sooooo many rupees throughout the game in the overworld and in dungeons along the way to all destinations that we can get instead. We'll most likely be getting 50r from every boss fight when playing through boss battles for the heart piece and Hylian Shield alone (~650r total?).

I can agree on no ammo-carrying upgrades though, since the majority seems to agree with parax.

I still think 1 of each medal is the way to go. To me the game is giving you 2 routes to obtain the HC and rupee medal: If you have a lot of money you can buy them from beetle, if you want to go the more exploritory route you can find them in goddess chests. When I got both pairs of each finally, it felt redundant.

Absolutely no to maps IMO.

(hi, kinda new here, I wanted to register for some time but I didnt have anything to post :p)

I think one medal of each should be enough, but goddess cubes should all be activated, not necessarily open the goddess chests, just activate the damn cubes. Should not take a huge time since you visit every area where they are and you re visit them also. Unless some major skip glitch is found it's only a bit of time loss and more route planning, I think it would be more entertaining.

About maps, I see no point in getting all of them, it's just a help... It's like saying you'd need to finish the game with 5 bottles with healing potions ++ in them... Plus it could make a dungeon way longer if some glitch to skip a big chunk of it was to be found.

aleckermit wrote

Activating all cubes makes nooooo sense. We should only activate and open the chests that contain required items for 100%. If we decided to open them all, so much time would be spent just opening unneeded rupee chests, there's sooooo many rupees throughout the game in the overworld and in dungeons along the way to all destinations that we can get instead. We'll most likely be getting 50r from every boss fight when playing through boss battles for the heart piece and Hylian Shield alone (~650r total?).

I can agree on no ammo-carrying upgrades though, since the majority seems to agree with parax.

I still think 1 of each medal is the way to go. To me the game is giving you 2 routes to obtain the HC and rupee medal: If you have a lot of money you can buy them from beetle, if you want to go the more exploritory route you can find them in goddess chests. When I got both pairs of each finally, it felt redundant.

Absolutely no to maps IMO.

You do not spend much time opening the chests AT ALL, since you visit/revisit every single area in the game for different reasons.
A good route should make it so that opening all the chests only takes like 10 minutes, maybe even 20. But not more.
And I said activate cubes, I did not even mention opening them at all.

And like I said earlier, most people WILL be against maps.
I do not really see why. This is the 100% category, yet people try to keep it as low as possible, like as if it was a low 100% run. We'll skip most of most dungeons because of skipping the maps.
And I guess this is why people is against maps, because you have to do more parts of the dungeon, and people do not want to do that for some reason.
People want quiver upgrades, but they do not want to do the dungeons to get the maps, which is the most fun part of the game. I do not see the logic in that, at all.

Ohh well, Like I said before, it just seems like people try to remove as much as possible every time they come up with a 100% definition.
If we go by the current definition, we'll only do like 80% of the game tbh. No cubes, no cube chests, no shield upgrades, no maps.

Also, should we have to activate all the bird statues? I imagine most people will be against this aswell though.

If we're going to skip goddess cubes and stuff, then we should just keep it as low as possible, like:
All B Items (upgraded)
20 heart containers
9900 rupee wallet
5 bottles
8 pouch slots
Hylian Shield

I do not see a point in even considering getting the quiver/bags or 1 of each medal, if we do not even get the cubes. It is like the replacement for the heart piece searching. There is almost no heart pieces to be found in the game (on the ground) compared to earlier zelda games. Instead they've put a lot of cubes all over the game.

I don't see how activting the cubes has ANYTHING to do with 100%.

They're exactly like the cow in Link's house in OoT. We don't get the cow in 100% because it's not an item Link actually adds to his inventory, it's an overworld modification. Just like the goddess cubes/chests. Unless the 100% definition reqires you to OPEN all goddess chests, there's no reason to trigger all teh cubes. And I don't see the point in opening all teh chests.

We should prob do a poll for this. Figure out whether the majority wants ALL medals or 1 of each medal, and whether the goddess cubes/chests should be required. Also whether the ammo holders and their upgrades should be required.

Goddess cubes and chests are the same as sea charts and underwater chests in the WW. And the gratitude crystals are akin to skulltullas/poes.

TheOnlyOne wrote

Goddess cubes and chests are the same as sea charts and underwater chests in the WW. And the gratitude crystals are akin to skulltullas/poes.

Exactly, and we don't get all charts/sea chests in TWW. The gratitude crystals aren't really a debatable issue since they're all required for the max wallett.

aleckermit wrote

I don't see how activting the cubes has ANYTHING to do with 100%.

They're exactly like the cow in Link's house in OoT. We don't get the cow in 100% because it's not an item Link actually adds to his inventory, it's an overworld modification. Just like the goddess cubes/chests. Unless the 100% definition reqires you to OPEN all goddess chests, there's no reason to trigger all teh cubes. And I don't see the point in opening all teh chests.

We should prob do a poll for this. Figure out whether the majority wants ALL medals or 1 of each medal, and whether the goddess cubes/chests should be required. Also whether the ammo holders and their upgrades should be required.

The ammo holders are a temporary upgrade that most likely ends up in the bank. It won't be used. So it'll be just as useless as anything else.
The definition of 100% has always been questionable and will always be.
Getting all the cubes (including useless ones that gives rupees), is just like getting the last 50 golden skulltulas in OoT. It is completely useless, it is something you simply do because it feels like it is a part of 100%.
And skipping maps/compasses/boss keys are skipped simply because people didn't want to collect them, but in a true 100% (if 100% means getting everything), you would get them, no matter if you want to or not.
Everything is questionable, that is why we have this thread.

Getting the cubes is just as useless as many other things. And the cubes in this game is like I said earlier, the replacement for the heart piece searching. They've reduced the heart pieces by A LOT and put goddess cubes all over the game instead for those who likes the searching and puzzles which zelda really is all about. However, goddess cubes does not have a number in your pause screen, which for some reason makes it more useless than other items, when it really serves a bigger purpose than most required items.

So, 100% will always be broken. And right now we're deciding how broken it will be. And I'm fine with either requiring everything (except for opening chests), or require as little as possible. But just randomly throwing in what should be required and what shouldn't will just make the definition even more confusing and broken.

Quote

And the gratitude crystals are akin to skulltullas/poes.

They give the same rewards, but you collect them in entirely different ways. The cube collecting is much more similar to skulltulas than gratitude crystals ever will be, since you get almost all crystals from side-quests, which normally gives heart pieces in most games, which makes gratitude crystals similar to heart pieces.

Confusing, isn't it.

___________________

And one more thing:
Goddess cube hunting would make 100% runs much more interesting. Especially when it comes to the routes, and maybe we'll find different tricks to reach cubes earlier, etc.
The 100% category just seems boring and not interesting at all at the moment. It'd be any% with the side-quests and a lot of time in the bazaar upgrading items, and a rare few heart pieces that are found in the overworld/dungeons.
Cubes would be what really makes 100% into its own interesting category, without it, it has nothing special to offer.

The cubes should not all be activated, period. ESPECIALLY if you're not going to open them all. The sea chart/treasure comparison is a perfect parrallel with the goddess cubes/chests. You activate them, they show you where treasure is, and you open them all in teh first playthrough at random just to aquire a few HP's and inventory items. We should treat it as a weeding-out process to obtain teh real 100%-required items.

That out of the way, I say: 1 of each medal. I'm on the fence about the ammo holders.. they still meet 100% definition to me. Remember, 100% in gaming started from Metroid and that percentage went by items and upgrades Samus obtained.

aleckermit wrote

That out of the way, I say: 1 of each medal. I'm on the fence about the ammo holders.. they still meet 100% definition to me. Remember, 100% in gaming started from Metroid and that percentage went by items and upgrades Samus obtained.

In metroid they didn't have hidden objects all over the game that you were supposed to find to get different rewards (goddess cubes). If there was, you'd probably have to collect them.
1 of each medal sounds stupid to me. either all medals, or none. if you have 2 apples and only pick one, it isn't 100%, it is 50%. I'm sure my math is correct. The medals are also completely useless. I've never ever used one (except for the 2 heart container medals).
And ammo holders is just another way of wasting time in the bazaar. Having to buy and upgrade them just to throw them away is way more annoying than finding the goddess cubes, period.

And from my last post:

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Goddess cube hunting would make 100% runs much more interesting. Especially when it comes to the routes, and maybe we'll find different tricks to reach cubes earlier, etc.
The 100% category just seems boring and not interesting at all at the moment. It'd be any% with the side-quests and a lot of time in the bazaar upgrading items, and a rare few heart pieces that are found in the overworld/dungeons.
Cubes would be what really makes 100% into its own interesting category, without it, it has nothing special to offer.

What fun would 100% be (especially when it comes to watching) if the only differences from any% is:
play minigames
run around talking to NPCs to get gratitude points
hit a FEW of the goddess cubes
open up 1 extra chest in fire sanctuary (for a bottle)
spend extra time in the bazaar upgrading items for multiple minutes
and open up like 4-5 chests to get a few heart pieces (aswell as picking up a rare few on the ground. those will only add a few minutes though. You'd barely notice it.)

In my opinion, goddess cubes is the only single thing in the entire game that really would make 100% interesting, since everything else in 100% is just watching someone run around talking to NPCs and open like 5 extra chests in the entire game.

Hitting goddess cubes (especially to make a chest appear that you don't need and will not open) is not fun. Whether you think the goddess cubes are more fun to require or not is beside the point anyway, they aren't obtainable items that Link adds to his inventory or quest screen, or pouch. They're just switches that make chests appear.

SS does have a lack of mini-games that reward HP's and items but that doesn't mean we need to make up for that by adding bogus requirements to 100%.

If this was Metroid Prime, Goddess cubes would have been part of the 100% just like visor scans would be.

Another thing... All dowsing targets or no?

aleckermit wrote

Remember, 100% in gaming started from Metroid and that percentage went by items and upgrades Samus obtained.

But in Metroid, you can't just buy unlimited Missile Tanks in a store; you collect them once, and then they're gone forever. It made sense to require the Biggest Bomb Bag in OoT because (disregarding RBA shenanigans) you could only get it once. And the MM 100% definition is based entirely around the items you don't lose when going back in time (i.e. the items you can only get once). The ammo upgrades in SS aren't permanent (you can put them in storage or even sell them), and they aren't unique (you can fill the Item Check entirely with Large Quivers if that floats your boat), so comparing them to OoT's ammo upgrades or to Metroid just doesn't make sense. Just because it's a Quiver doesn't mean it's anything like OoT's Quiver.

darkeye14 wrote

But in Metroid, you can't just buy unlimited Missile Tanks in a store; you collect them once, and then they're gone forever. It made sense to require the Biggest Bomb Bag in OoT because (disregarding RBA shenanigans) you could only get it once. And the MM 100% definition is based entirely around the items you don't lose when going back in time (i.e. the items you can only get once). The ammo upgrades in SS aren't permanent (you can put them in storage or even sell them), and they aren't unique (you can fill the Item Check entirely with Large Quivers if that floats your boat), so comparing them to OoT's ammo upgrades or to Metroid just doesn't make sense. Just because it's a Quiver doesn't mean it's anything like OoT's Quiver.

I can sway to the majority on ammo holders and all medals vs. 1 of each medal but I can't agree with the cubes, I think my reasoning is sound.

What's your opinion on the cubes darkeye?

aleckermit wrote

SS does have a lack of mini-games that reward HP's and items but that doesn't mean we need to make up for that by adding bogus requirements to 100%.

Then do not add 1 of each medal and ammo holders.
They are just as bogus as anything else.
It is just stupid.

1 of each medal does not make any sense at all. Why would you ever only get 1. Either all, or none. That is the most logical thing to do.
And the ammo holders is just a time waster, it is a temporary upgrade you choose to equip that doesn't upgrade link permanently in any way.

I'd say either throw in as much as possible into the 100% category, or keep it to the lowest, without any stupid things at all.

Quote

All dowsing targets or no?

I think we should unlock all dowsing targets. It is something you unlock permanently and it is on the UI even.
The same goes for bird statues (which some people will be against), it serves as a warp point in the game, and it is something you unlock. I do not see how these could be skipped in a 100%. And no shit can explain why it shouldn't be in the definition.

I think the Goddess Cubes are kind of dumb. It seems pointless to hit a cube that you're not even going to get treasure from anyways (though some unnecessary cubes might come in handy for buying expensive things from Beedle). It would be like spawning a treasure chest in OoT, and then not opening it. It just seems like a waste of time.

CloudMax wrote

And from my last post:What fun would 100% be (especially when it comes to watching) if the only differences from any% is:

Adding arbitrary items to the definition seems like an SRL goal, not a rational and sensible criteria for which items to collect. No-OoB MM any% is way more fun than the standard any%, but it's just not a realistic category. If the 100% run is boring, then it's the game's fault, not the fault of the people who came up with the definition.

I really don't think any of the rupee goddess chests will come in handy. Unless the cube is in Link's direct path and its chest is on an island that has an item we need.

As for bird statues, I think whatever we decided with MM's owl statues applies here.

aleckermit wrote

I really don't think any of the rupee goddess chests will come in handy. Unless the cube is in Link's direct path and its chest is on the same island as a HP/medal/pouch chest.

As for bird staatues, I think whatever we decided with MM's owl statues applies here.

In the IRC they clearly told me NOT to compare with oot/mm definitions, because they said that a lot of stuff is questionable in those definitions aswell.

I just think bird statues should be collected it just seems logical.

And rupee chests should be totally useless if you play hero mode (which you most likely will do), since you just can sell your rare treasure for 300 rupees each, and it goes really fast.