100% definition

Very nice metaphor or whatever. Even though quantum breaks or bends rules of conventional physics, it's a separate set of rules. But it's all physics.
I still vouch for all cubes and chests. And idk all of tww rules, but I don't really like comparisons between the two. I'll do one 100% run after we settle this all.

Oh god GeneralLight, you have some mighty high standards...

1.)At least one of every shield, fully upgraded.
2.)All B items, fully upgraded
3.)Maximum Dowsing Targets (exception: Sidequest Targets like Unidentified Plant etc)
4.)At least one bomb bag, quiver, and seed bag fully upgraded.
5.)Every Medal. Even the duplicate ones. *
6.)Every Goddess Cube Treasure opened (you get the Confirmation Screen)*
7.)Have/Had at least one of every insect and treasure. (This turns the icon silhouettes into full-color pictures)
8.)Every sidequest finished.*
9.)Every Rupee bag upgrade (Beedle's bags and Batreaux's "over 9000 bag")*
10.)All Gratitude Crystals*
11.)All bottles (put one of each potion in each bottle, then fully upgrade it)*
12.)All Pieces of Heart/Heart Containers
13.)All Adventure Pouches
*some steps may lead to or require the completion of another.

Should Hero Mode be optional?
If we do it, it makes step 7 easier. And 1, 2, 8, 11, and 12 become somewhat easier in that respect. But the entirety of the game just LONGER.
If we don't, that shaves a lot of time off our shoulders.

Also, when did I ever become part of the ZSR clique?  ???

I think we should keep this relatively simple:

- All hearts
- All items & Upgrades: Bottles, Shields, Medals, Wallets, Adventure Pouches, etc.
- All Goddess Cubes & Chests
- And--duh--all dungeons completed*

*Not 100%, just the dungeon item, boss beaten, and heart container obtained. This should be pretty well covered by requiring all items and all hearts.

I don't see why we need to make Skyward Sword 100% so much bigger and "requirement-heavy" than every other 100% that has come before it.

Wow this is taking forever to be resolved. Obviously not everyone will ever agree.

Why is anyone talking about normal mode? Do you honestly want to watch over 2 hours of cutscenes? Theoretically, I guess if you want an uncontested world record...

Bugs/treasues? NG+? Seriously? Hero mode is just different. Do you want to not use skyward strike or not skip cutscenes? Use what you have, there's no reason to limit yourself, especially when talking about 100%.

UchihaSasuke wrote

if you want to do 100% and start with 0 bugs/treasures, do it in normal mode.

Agreed.

Basically 100% should be like in other games. Everything finite that can be in your inventory screen:

• All dowsing targets
• 8 adventure slots
• All B-Items
• All Goddess Chests must be opened
• All medals
• Hylian Shield
• All bottles
• 9900 wallet
• All Heart pieces/containers
• Obviously, beat the game

If you require things not in the inventory, you open a whole can of stupid worms. Talk to everyone, watch every cutscene, get every Fi text (including hints and advice), open every chest, land at every statue, etc. Put it this way, 100% in Metroid does not include scans, only that you've obtained every significant item.

FYI, when you are in the Sky, the dowsing for Goddess Cubes is replaced with Goddess Chests.

For ammo/shield/potion upgrades, I'd go with no. It's not that they are boring to get, it's just extremely arbitrary. It's like requiring to get every bug or every rupee. If you can get an unlimited number of something, there's no reason to require it. As it has been stated over and over; it's all or nothing. For B-Items upgrades, I'm not so sure. Still seems arbitrary to upgrade them, but those are finite, so I'd go either way but leaning towards upgrading.

As for timing, I'd prefer to start from file start. It's silly to start when you gain control for the reason to make it the same as normal mode. If you do that, you might as well not count any cutscenes. Enjoy timing that >_>. Something that has come up is ending time. Should the time end when you land the final blow on Demise (Like in boss rush) or should it be the last point of significant input (when you move the wiimote to start the final blow). I know it's like a 2 second difference, but someone had asked me about it. I prefer when the blow actually lands, not when you do the input.

TestRunner wrote

Something that has come up is ending time. Should the time end when you land the final blow on Demise (Like in boss rush) or should it be the last point of significant input (when you move the wiimote to start the final blow). I know it's like a 2 second difference, but someone had asked me about it. I prefer when the blow actually lands, not when you do the input.

I think technically timing should end on final input, because it is the final manipulation by the player (and consistent with other games). However, it's so little time out of such a long category, it probably won't even matter. You can stop it later, then subtract your ~2 seconds after.

Guys, while you have been arguing about the definition of 100% A record has already been broken 3 times. Indykenobi currently has the 100% WR using his own definition. This is what he thinks 100% is:



Well, there isn't one currently agreed upon. The definition I used for my 100% RTA includes the following:
- All Heart Pieces
- All Goddess Cubes and Chests
- All Gratitude Crystals
- All Medals
- All Bottles
- All Pouch/Wallet upgrades
- All B-items, fully upgraded
- All dowsing options
- Hylian Shield

Things I didn't get:
- Shield/ammo/potion upgrades
- Dungeon maps
- Non-goddess chests
- Bird statues

Any/all of these could be debated, but I wanted to start working, and this seemed like the place to start.



I agree with him on his "Didn't Get" list. Shields Can be bought at an infinite quantity, so it's really doesn't matter whether or not you get the upgrades for them, and so are ammo and potions. Dungeon maps are not necessary for beating the game, you can bypass many chests because they contain rupees and the Bird Statues are just Save points and landmarks. The only thing up for debate is Shield/ammo/potion upgrades, but like I said, you can purchase them at an infinite quantity, so you can get an infinite amount of those upgrades.  And by infinite, I meant how much space is available in the Item Check Girl place...

Note: He also didn't get bugs and treasures.

If you want a true to the bone definition of 100%, then you have to play the game on normal mode. Which would take hours more then his original run. It wouldn't be considered a speedrun (but then again, it would. speedrunception). I may consider doing one under Indykenobi's definition.

In my opinion you should get the upgrades for the 3 shields, the bomb bag, the slingshot seed bag and the quiver at least once.

The main reason I decided not to do upgrades for shields/ammo/potions is because they aren't limited items, as Testrunner and Blackrazgriz have noted.  If you're going to upgrade the shields, why shouldn't you get one of each type of wooden shield (wooden, banded, braced)?  That seems silly, especially since the Hylian Shield obsoletes all of them.  I could see a better argument for the ammo upgrades, but even still, why not get one of each type of ammo container?  It's not limited.

I'm actually more curious lately about whether dungeon maps should be included in the definition.  It may be true that they aren't necessary to beat the game, but neither are gratitude crystals or goddess cubes.  I'd prefer not to get them, and there's precedent for skipping them as I believe OoT 100% does.  So that's why they're not in the route.

And yes, I didn't get bugs or treasures; since I play in Hero Mode, it seemed silly to not take advantage of having treasures and bugs carry over.  Doing this in Normal Mode, you'd have to collect enough treasures on the way to do whatever upgrading you decide are necessary, plus the 2 hours of cutscenes, so I'm not sure how that's a truer 100% definition than the similar thing in Hero Mode.

Some treasures and bugs are not necessary but they have a fixed spot in the inventory, so they should all be gotten at least once. Like in OoT the magic beans could be skipped, but they have a fixed spot on the inventory.

In OoT, there is a limited number of beans, so you have to get all of them. In Skywards Sword, there is an infinite number of treasures.

My stand is like Indy's, if you really think you should collect treasures, then play normal mode. It's like playing NG+, but your character has to be level 1 and you can't use any old items.

For dungeon maps, I'll just follow MM which only required permanent items. So you don't need dungeon maps, compasses, and BKs. I know there's a little contention here for OoT...

You don't need lower tiers of items, since other games follow the same philosophy.

Still unsure about the goddess cubes/chests, because they are not requires in TWW (maps/chests). But I'll agree with either decision, but personally, I support opening them.

Btw, it's funny that the only people who are disagreeing with the current definition are people who are not running the game. :P

Why are we arguing over this again? It seems like its just people who don't agree with the definition want to get it changed. It had seemed to have calmed down and almost have a perfect agreement. The best way to reach an agreement is to do a 100% run and see if it feels long enough. If you want to try collecting all the treasures, upgrading all items, etc, be my guest. But please do remember that even if you think that's what 100% SHOULD be, that may not be what the 100% run is. There is a reason we have a 100% definition. It doesn't mean doing everything possible in the game. Like TestRunner said, most people arguing aren't running. I'm not running SS anymore. But I have something to make even more arguments. In TWW, we collect all charts but not chests, even though you can see the count of chests collected on the map screen. But I don't think the map screen is accessible in the Ganon fight. So even though you can't see all the map count at the end, they are required. Gnaw on that bone.


Well, if you want a normal mode 100% on SDA, I believe you could watch all the cutscenes first so you have a complete skip.dat or w/e. I'm just thinking to the CBFD run where they skip all the cutscenes because they've already been watched.