MM: Trick Research & Discovery Thread

I was rather talking about the deleting the file issue.

because I assume the file only gets deleted cause the game can't read it anymore - which means that the arrow, ruppe, bomb etc count have to affect the file in a way so that the game says "I can't read it anymore".

IF it is so, I wonder if it is possible to have a specific amount of items and rupees to obtain a broken file of which the game thinks that it is actually readable.

oh and about the fire arrow softlock - I just wanted to know how the game behaves when you void out when the text box appears.
there has to be a reason for this textbox to come up. I guess if the player voids out after the "softlock", he just goes back to D1 / N1 - but I'd still like to see it.
So I wasn't talking about obtaining it ^^

I would try having 256 rupees, I dunno either. Definitely not the entire rupee count, heh. I tested small keys for what it's worth and that didn't cause a deletion.

Another thing to consider is probably some BA effects. I combined endless day with 0th Day, and the result is similar to the method regarding night of 0th Day access (halting area reload in the day that preserves some NPCs). 0th Day effect still disappears after leaving an area unfortunately. Anyway, some BA effects can cause a file deletion too I believe, but it's been a while.

edit: File still deletes with 256.

MM's checksum algorithm is to simply sum up all the bytes within the file. Since the checksum is a 16 bit value, all the ammo and such would have to  add up 65536 so that the count rolls over.

Duping a bottle over the bow allows you to hold arrows without file deletion, will require elemental arrows to use though.

hmmm... so looking for something like that seems kinda pointless...

I wanted to see what happens when you do 0th day glitch in the room with the dead deku scrub - was hoping that the scene tries to reload... which it didn't...

I'm running out of ideas - I also can't understand why SoT behaves like that while stored SoS does not have any effect under the same circumstances. (is it because you have like 2 actual saves at once cause the owl save only gets cancelled by actually talking to it...?)

I doubt to have enough knowledge about the way the game actually works to get to a useful result...

well... I'll try a few more things but I really doubt that I'll end up with something useful :/

0th Day quirks:

- removes Milk Road boulder
- instant alien invasion win (skips bottle)
- Mayor's Residence doesn't kick you out when it's late
- bringing Pendant of Memories/Madam Aroma's letter to 1st Day
- Postman fleeing on 1st Day (vanishes near guard then returns waiting every night)
- South Clock Town carpenter crash
- Cremia softlock (using 6pm nighttime method to keep her from vanishing)
- Bomb Shop owner using Final Day dialogue
- Anju's grandmother the only person in the inn; uses Final Day dialogue
- town guards use 1st/2nd Day dialogue
- Hylian Loach without Epona
- wearing transformation masks as non-transformational
- enemies seeing Link in the wrong form (bird steals sword from Zora, etc.)
- Fierce Deity using one-handed sword (almost no control)
- displaying 96-72 hours remaining
- new method for Deku Nuts on B
- brings a temporary Razor Sword to the 1st Day

What I cannot replicate:

Having Link's model messed up. After certain conditions are met (whatever they are), you do this: Be Deku/Goron/Zora, select 'Yes' on SoT, then take off the mask before the area reloads. The appearance of human Link's abomination is different from each form, with Zora having the coolest one (a green square curtaining Link that flashes from movement). Pausing and unpausing crashes the game. The effect wears off when you leave the area. The required conditions are saved permanently; I stopped being able to do this after I deleted the file. This was all on VC version.

What to do:

Speak with every time-relevant NPC in every condition possible on 0th Day for curiosity's sake. Regarding the transformation masks as non-transformational, only two NPCs react to them (Curiosity Shop and Bomb Shop guy).

Yeah, I doubt it has any applications for speedrunning; Song of Soaring disabling the effect really hurts it. I can maybe see the alien invasion win for All Masks, but I'm not familiar with the route to know. It's just for fun; brings new ideas for a Bingo.

I honestly don't even care about the speedrunning advantages - I just really like to mess with the game and see how it tries to handle with different stuff...
But I think I won't get far without emulator... I always have to set everything up again on VC which is kinda annoying...
I'd really like to know how to see and read all the memory values on the emulator x)

Me neither. :-*

I found an easier 0th Day nighttime method that doesn't use frame-perfect pausing: Using a cutscene.

Is 4th day and 0th day glitch the same? Im confused o.O

Peffern wrote

Is 4th day and 0th day glitch the same? Im confused o.O

No. Watch this video.

hmm, I was doing BA over the hookshot, bombs and arrows (the last two only to prevent the file deletion... which failed) and did the 0th day glitch on day 2.
it's kinda interesting, that after I pulled out the ocarina, I was still on the 2nd day, the enviroment (moon) was like it was on the 0th day tho. (would be interesting to see the moon coming closer doing that on third day instead)

I should really start doing this on emulator... I'd be interested in what happened if I played sodt...

edit: looking at GnS's video shows, that you end up on the same day anyway... regardless if you BA'd over hookshot or not ...

Yeah, the clock doesn't change what day to display. Other than the environment, you can use the Bombers' Notebook to know the real day.

3 things today:

Firstly I found that using an effect of 0th day and mask switching, you can do the Sonata cutscene in any form:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyCR1i5_YhM
Secondly I found (bigger) that when you do the glitch that lets you enter the CS in any form, your C-buttons will stay undimmed if they were undimmed before. This means that you can put any item on that C button and it will be usable, effectively meaning any item anywhere:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnP3479I1jw
Thirdly, I applied any item anywhere, and some knowledge on how deku link handles the ammo count for the bow (it doesn't use up arrows) and found out that it's possible to skip the bow and the quiver in a run:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdh3mw6CPUo

Jeville I want to talk to you about this stuff because I'm just assuming that none of this was already known, I couldn't find it anywhere. If you did already stumble into this before at some point then I'm sorry for doing all this and I'll recredit everything. I just kinda want to know where it stands with that,  after all it's thanks to your in-depth work on 0th day and mayor's warp file that this glitch was even close to being known.

I was playing around with it after a run today and did the FD glitch before performing it ...
ended up having a blank B button, making FD slash like an idiot - but using the Great Fairy Sword acts like the FD blade, so you get back the control and can use other items, such as the ocarina. the hookshot / bow get cancelled cause FD is slashing all the time when he doesn't have the blade on B or the Great Fairy Sword...

This might be know for all I know lol  :P

So I was fucking around with SoS storage to see if I could get it to work, and apparently some text boxes makes the game soft lock, I checked with different text boxes and some of them kept making me soft lock while other opened the screen where you choose where to Soar to. I have no idea why this is happening but I figured I might share it since I haven't seen it being mentioned anywhere that this happen.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dC2vYsXNKY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJWyNBlTrMI

npc's softlock, signs and noninteractive textboxes make the screen appear, and triggering it in the pause menu crashes the game :p
it's completely useless - it doesn't even do something on 0th day

Yes but when i talk to the people it doesnt even get triggered it just straight softlocks, while signs nothing weird happens

also gonna post it here -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVQaSFPGPXY
maybe it gives some hints on a few new tricks, cause this one could only be useful for max% ... well, not even that cause there's nothing you could get in great bay as a deku :D

very nice setup for FFWW I played around with http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lcLwewh4u9M

Hi, i think i've found a setup to succeed everytime the Pinnacle rock clip.
Based on vpp setup, i noticed the camera moves twice, up and down. When it goes down, i press A (stick still up), zora link bonks and clip into the wall.
In the video i did it slowly but i think with much more training anyone could do it by keeping a speedrun pace.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Emhf_T_yVzY&feature=youtu.be

cutscene warps https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-YxHO7uiNo

hummmmmmm

Song of Soaring "Wrong Warp" discovered by Indextic. The way it works is very simple: When you hit the extra owl statue in clock town, you unlock the ability to warp with Song of Soaring. It turns out that you can choose which owl statue you warp to by selecting a location on the world map before warping. Fortunately, there are more spots on the world map than owl statues, so you can hit everything. Below is the list of locations you can warp to.

http://pastebin.com/hD1726GA

Tingle cannot be used to unlock new areas on the map. You must visit the area yourself.

There are a few ways that you can chain map unlocks.

Great Bay (always highlighted by default when entering a new area) -> Great Bay Coast

Clock Town -> Milk Road (unlocks romani ranch)
Romani Ranch -> Snowhead
Snowhead -> Woodfall
Woodfall -> Clock Town

Deku Palace -> Mountain Village (does not unlock Goron Village)

Goron Village -> Stone Tower

Ikana Graveyard -> Southern Swamp (unlock Woodfall)

Jesus Christ, nice job MZX and Indextic!

Anyways, what happens if you use the dungeon map then use SoS?

@Tyranitar I had nothing to do with discovering the trick.

Playing SoS in a dungeon causes you to warp to the start, and leaving the current area causes you to lose your map cursor position.

Have done a bit more investigating.

Others before me have pointed out that if you move your cursor so that it highlights a location, then move it over either Z or R, you will end up selecting a different location. If you close the pause menu while still on the map screen and while highlighting Z or R, then play the SoS and close the SoS map, the cursor will now be highlighting a fake location on the world map when you pause the game. You can then move to the same Z or R button as before to change the cursor value again.

It turns out that the cursor value is a signed short, giving us over 65k fake locations that can potentially be "warped" to. If you select Z, the cursor will have a value of -1 by default, while if you select R it will have a value of 11. Thus, moving towards Z on the world map will decrease the cursor by one, while moving towards R will increase it.

Another thing that was mentioned was that it's possible to move the cursor when selecting a fake location on the SoS map without softlocking the game. The way this works is a little odd.

The reason a softlock occurs when moving the cursor is pretty obvious: The game seeks for the next unlocked owl statue in the list. Without any owl statues unlocked, the game gets stuck in an infinite loop.

However, with the trick above, you can move the SoS cursor past the normal selection bounds (Z/Left pushing you into negative, R/Right into positive). Eventually your cursor will pass a location that the game detects as being "unlocked". If you've been moving the cursor toward Z/Left/negative to decrease it, you'll be able to move the cursor to the right on the SoS screen, while if you've been moving the cursor toward R/Right/positive, you'll be able to move the cursor to the left. This is because the game only checks whether you've gone over bounds in the direction the cursor is moving.

Furthermore... I managed to play the animation for speeding up time with the Song of Soaring. So far this occurs if you have a cursor value of -253 or -257

With a cursor value of -10000 I managed to open up the bomber's notebook, it would be great if we could just make a google doc or whatever to collaborate.

edit: http://pastebin.com/aqixJkV4 are some of the values I tested.. most notably -9921 which uses song of soaring to warp to your last entrance

Should we get a Google doc going for these values? I've been going through a bunch of 'em myself.

EDIT: I'm honestly not even sure if it's worth going through these, considering it'd take forever to get the counter where it needs to be even if a useful value is found. I have this, though. http://pastebin.com/zehWnXM0

I'm not sure if this is where I would post it, but I made a route for all masks using the new glitch.

http://pastebin.com/mYqZB4uk

A couple notes:

-We have to play sodt to get the glitch to work right? Therefore, after playing sodt after getting sonata, we likely have to play isot to get to the ranch by 3 am and do all the other stuff, not sure exactly where we should play it again to un-invert though.
-We have to go to the stone tower owl to get to ikana, because the ikana owl needs the ikana canyon area on the map screen.
-Also, if we invert at this point, we can get gibdo mask and still have enough time. Like before, we need to un-invert again at some point. I don't think that we can get gibdo mask after beating stone tower in cycle 3 because ikana gets put into the wrong state. I may be wrong on this though, in which case it would probably be better to get the gibdo mask after beating stone tower.
-We don't get zora mask until 3rd cycle. lol.
-This route is based on the current route on ZSR, so it may be outdated a bit.

Tr621 wrote

I'm not sure if this is where I would post it, but I made a route for all masks using the new glitch.

http://pastebin.com/mYqZB4uk

1. you don't need sodt for the glitch to work
2. you could sodt later in your route, and opt to finish woodfall to later get scents (meaning you would get red potion)
3. you can sodt storage after saving the aliens to get epona's song, then sodt x2 for romani mask
4. won't need to bu red potion if you can route it correctly after getting witch bottle
5. don't need to ranch hover in cycle 2, would need to re route bunny hood though, possibly get breman earlier
6. would CS skip in gbt since you'd get oath at woodfall

Really solid start for the route, few minor changes would do it some good

quo wrote

1. you don't need sodt for the glitch to work
2. you could sodt later in your route, and opt to finish woodfall to later get scents (meaning you would get red potion)
3. you can sodt storage after saving the aliens to get epona's song, then sodt x2 for romani mask
4. won't need to bu red potion if you can route it correctly after getting witch bottle
5. don't need to ranch hover in cycle 2, would need to re route bunny hood though, possibly get breman earlier
6. would CS skip in gbt since you'd get oath at woodfall

Really solid start for the route, few minor changes would do it some good

1. This made no sense anyway
2. Not sure what you mean here
3. I didn't even know sodt storage did anything lol
4. The route does not get the witches bottle, we get the bottle from saving the ranch
5. Fixed the route to compensate for this. Bremen mask is now gotten after the midnight meeting and mailing the letter, but before going to the ranch. We still get the garo's mask in cycle 3, though, but this is not at the ranch.
6. Do you mean a cs skip with sot storage? If so, how would we fight gyorg without pressing A?

Thanks for the feedback though.

Tr621 wrote

I'm not sure if this is where I would post it, but I made a route for all masks using the new glitch.

http://pastebin.com/mYqZB4uk

A couple notes:

-We have to play sodt to get the glitch to work right? Therefore, after playing sodt after getting sonata, we likely have to play isot to get to the ranch by 3 am and do all the other stuff, not sure exactly where we should play it again to un-invert though.
-We have to go to the stone tower owl to get to ikana, because the ikana owl needs the ikana canyon area on the map screen.
-Also, if we invert at this point, we can get gibdo mask and still have enough time. Like before, we need to un-invert again at some point. I don't think that we can get gibdo mask after beating stone tower in cycle 3 because ikana gets put into the wrong state. I may be wrong on this though, in which case it would probably be better to get the gibdo mask after beating stone tower.
-We don't get zora mask until 3rd cycle. lol.
-This route is based on the current route on ZSR, so it may be outdated a bit.

One major problem with the route is that you cant pick up rock sirloin without zora mask or goron mask