MM: Question & Answer Thread

What playe said.
Also note that you have to hold slightly up-left or up-right, return to neutral then hold the direction you want to face.
Or as an alternative you could hold slightly up-left or up-right, roll, then hit the direction you want right as the roll ends.

woodfall loading zone exists, but its underwater

oob water warps you so sonata skip isnt likely

About movement speeds. Is constant Zora-diving the fastest way to swim (apart from supersliding of some sorts)? I watched the former ZMM TAS by mukki the other day, and I found it a little odd the way he swam to to PH. He swims for 2 seconds or so, and dives, and it seems too somehow lack a flow in the movement.

Yeah it's the fastest way to swim.

ArthurDent wrote

About movement speeds. Is constant Zora-diving the fastest way to swim (apart from supersliding of some sorts)? I watched the former ZMM TAS by mukki the other day, and I found it a little odd the way he swam to to PH. He swims for 2 seconds or so, and dives, and it seems too somehow lack a flow in the movement.

I believe the actual movement is called "dolphin-diving" and yes it is the fastest form of movement aside from super-swimming.

So you ought to dive continously if you want to swim the fastest. And the swimming in the obsoleted TAS isn't sensible as optimized movement.

About Virtual Console, are there different versions of the game? I read "NTSC VC" somewhere somewhat indicating that there are different versions. So when I a european, download MM to play it on Wii, which version do I get?

PAL VC which will run about 5/6ths of the speed of NTSC VC

So if I download that, to get a new Majora's Mask experience, I still get an inferiror version:(

I'm in england so i get shitty PAL and was just wondering is it like OoT where certain glitches like megaflips (off enemies) and superslides (as adult link) are more difficult?? I've been having alot of trouble with megahovers and it's probably 'cos i'm a nub but i can do superslides and HESS's fine, was just wondering is it because i'm on PAL??

EDIT: holy shit i just tried it on the gamecube version and just got two megaflips out of hover in the first 5 mins!

Childlink9999 wrote

I'm in england so i get shitty PAL and was just wondering is it like OoT where certain glitches like megaflips (off enemies) and superslides (as adult link) are more difficult?? I've been having alot of trouble with megahovers and it's probably 'cos i'm a nub but i can do superslides and HESS's fine, was just wondering is it because i'm on PAL??

EDIT: holy shit i just tried it on the gamecube version and just got two megaflips out of hover in the first 5 mins!

You can megaflip on pal in mm. Idk why you can hess and you can't megaflip, they're basically the same trick lol

Ing told me that on the pal version link doesn't roll as far so they are a bit harder than on ntsc.

Childlink9999 wrote

I'm in england so i get shitty PAL and was just wondering is it like OoT where certain glitches like megaflips (off enemies) and superslides (as adult link) are more difficult?? I've been having alot of trouble with megahovers and it's probably 'cos i'm a nub but i can do superslides and HESS's fine, was just wondering is it because i'm on PAL??

EDIT: holy shit i just tried it on the gamecube version and just got two megaflips out of hover in the first 5 mins!

Gamecube runs the same speed as NTSC.

D U F I wrote

Ing told me that on the pal version link doesn't roll as far so they are a bit harder than on ntsc.

Well the difference is a a lot more than "a bit harder" for me. I just bashed three megaflips in a row on the gamecube version and generally get them once every two or three tries, went back to PAL VC and with 20 bombs couldn't get a single one. it seems whenever i get the timing that would result in a megaflip on the gamecube version, link just recoil flips instead gaining no height or distance as ISG is on. Personally i think the timing is just a lot harder on PAL 'cos i was getting them instantly on the gamecube version unless there's someone who's consistent with megaflips on the PAL version who begs to differ.

you aren't playing at the same speed as you would be on gamecube so your timing is off

Childlink9999 wrote

Well the difference is a a lot more than "a bit harder" for me. I just bashed three megaflips in a row on the gamecube version and generally get them once every two or three tries, went back to PAL VC and with 20 bombs couldn't get a single one. it seems whenever i get the timing that would result in a megaflip on the gamecube version, link just recoil flips instead gaining no height or distance as ISG is on. Personally i think the timing is just a lot harder on PAL 'cos i was getting them instantly on the gamecube version unless there's someone who's consistent with megaflips on the PAL version who begs to differ.

I used to be consistant with megaflips on PAL.

D U F I wrote

you aren't playing at the same speed as you would be on gamecube so your timing is off

well i've always played on PAL VC so my timing for things like HESS was PAL timing, i only played on gamecube to see if i still can't megaflip on that version.

BottlesFTW wrote

I used to be consistant with megaflips on PAL.

Fair enough then i guess i have no idea then, if i'm the only one who has trouble with PAL megaflips must be something i'm doing.

Childlink9999 wrote

well i've always played on PAL VC so my timing for things like HESS was PAL timing, i only played on gamecube to see if i still can't megaflip on that version.

Fair enough then i guess i have no idea then, if i'm the only one who has trouble with PAL megaflips must be something i'm doing.

Well, I was already well practised with the megaflip timing because I had played GC before my disc broke, then I had to go to pal vc. It's very possible that the backflip is frame perfect on pal; that might be the trouble you're having with it. I can't be bothered going to test it, though.

Im having some trouble doing the 8 explosive gbt bk skip. Im not sure what im doing wrong, so i recorded a vid of me trying to do it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=da_GLJcYgOo&feature=youtube_gdata_player I keep landing in that room everytime i try to do this.

Warburner87 wrote

Im having some trouble doing the 8 explosive gbt bk skip. Im not sure what im doing wrong, so i recorded a vid of me trying to do it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=da_GLJcYgOo&feature=youtube_gdata_player I keep landing in that room everytime i try to do this.

It's because you're not unloading the big wheel room.
The backflip at 00:20, you need to make sure you're holding back during it. Also, you should be higher at that point before you do the backflip; end your 5th hover earlier, or you wont get to unload the main room.

completely new at this, ok so i was wondering whats the best version to play this on. i have the 64, i guess its good enough right?

also i can find how to do the backflip onto the clocktower as a deku on the first cycle

dont laugh

thnks in advance

Depends on who you're talking to, all versions are almost the same  (I say this 'cause GC has a few random glitches that're fixed but don't effect speed-running and 'cause JPN N64/VC have major differences to the US version.) just with differences in lag and loading time with the exception of VC which has screwed up sensitivity. (Yet it has the least amount of lag and loading time so generally this is the fastest version.)

I personally am probably going to prefer the N64 version of the game once I get it in a few days so I'd encourage people to play on N64.

And there's actually two methods of getting up there, one with a backflip and one with a Gainer.

thank u so much playe much appreciated :)

The best version to play on for Majora's Mask is the Virtual Console version because it is the fastest version. If you play any other version, your time will be worse. (Not by too much, though. For example, you lose about 1-2 minutes in an any% run)

VC is the fastest version of MM to speedrun on, but the sensitivity on the control stick is really bad compared to on N64 (aiming and ESS are generally considered way harder on VC than on N64). VC saves about 1 minute and 30 seconds in an any% run (obviously not exactly that since lag is variable, but that's the closest estimate we have for right now).

For those curious about the 1:30 figure:
-37 seconds from loading times (0.3 seconds per loading zone on average with 125 loading zones in the current any% route)
-23 seconds from cutscene lag (darkeye timed this a while back)
-About 10 seconds from faster text in first cycle (this is nowhere near exact since slight differences in mashing speed could make up to 1-2 seconds difference here)
-11 seconds from faster unpauses (N64 unpauses are always exactly 19 input frames longer than VC ones). This is assuming you use a lot more pauses than N64 for lullaby skip ISG or don't buffer it on either (VC would generally want to advance 1 frame at a time since the unpause is so fast that the game's video output can't keep up with it)
-Around 12 seconds from explosion lag (this is a horrible estimate; explosion lag is extremely variable and the number of explosives used can vary. I assumed about 1/10 second explosion lag based on timing a few and taking the average and assumed 120 explosives used which is the max you would ever use in the current route. Obviously 12 seconds is probably a huge overestimation.)
-The rest of the lag is negligable, since faster playing can easily cancel out the tiny bit of lag there is (deku palace can be done just as fast on N64 as on VC despite all the lag there for example), and VC actually lags MORE in some areas such as Zora Cape.

I timed all of this VERY extensively in Sony Vegas over the past few months (with the exception of the explosive lag obviously), so it should be pretty accurate. If someone knowledgable like darkeye wants to look this over, go ahead; it's always possible I missed something.

the best version of mm to use is the one you feel comfortable with, as the time differences aren't very noticeable and don't make much of a difference in races

Yeah, I really doubt MM VC is ever gonna make that much of a difference outside of segmented runs and ILs. Even in single segment runs, an improvement is usually gonna be way more than just a minute and a half in gameplay quality over the previous run, so either way the run with better play quality will win out. Even if an improvement is less than 1:30, it'll probably be lower enough that we can safely say it's not a better run. MM VC is not anywhere near the overpowered monstrosity people used to make it out to be. Hell, OoT VC probably saves way more time than MM VC does, and people still manage to compete no problem in OoT with N64.

thanks for all the imput guys, im only starting to learn the bomb hover glitches in this game. Im not really aiming to have a good speedrun time since im only begining, but i guess i can get a hang of the game mechanics just fine by playing the 64 version.

yeah another question

does anybody know any tutorial vids for how to HESS and MEGA FLIP? or if anybody want to explain them to me step by step :( sickest moves but i think im trying to do them wrong :(

basically what i try to do is roll into the bomb and get it to hit me on the last (2?) frames of my roll and mash A.

You don't want to be megaflipping until you know everything else and to do a hess you have to roll on the first blue frame after the 6th flash and hold the ess position and then press z after a second