Up to. I playied about 5-6 hours yesterday; I suppose I should've mentioned that.
Well, at this point, NG+ shouldn't be decided. Since we are still breaking the game, all any% races should be Hero Mode. Once we get a more defined understanding of the game, a NG+ category can be made. If we call Hero Mode NG+, something could come along later and it would make things even more confusing. So as of now, there should be no NG+. Agreed?
Well, it seems I've reached my first impasse. I assumed I'd have to stop before the Hero's song quest, since I skipped the sailcloth, but apparently nothing ever triggered the gate of time. So I'm told to hit the pillar with a skyward strike, but I can't really do that if it's not there. >_> I believe Kazooie uploaded a video with it last week, but I didn't think it would be impassible. So does this mean that we won't be able to skip the first imprisoned fight or is there some other trigger that I've neglected?
Yeah, Kazooie showed that in his video. You can still skip the Imprisoned, you just have to go into Sealed Temple and learn Ballad of the Goddess to raise the gate of time before you go do the Faron silent realm. The game doesn't stop you from leaving before fighting the Imprisoned.
Also I did a 5:56 SS run today using the new skip, so as long as you raise the Gate of Time I can vouch nothing else goes wrong and the game is still entirely finishable.
Also I did a 5:56 SS run today using the new skip, so as long as you raise the Gate of Time I can vouch nothing else goes wrong and the game is still entirely finishable.
Last edited 16 Apr 2012, 06:52 by Paraxade.
grats on the sub 6
All right, thanks Parax. So was a way to get into Owlan's room ever discovered so we could do the sailcloth skip without getting stuck?
Nope, you have to get the sail cloth. But you can skip the race intro with BiT, so that saves like a min or two.
Alright, so I found that thunderhead early works after beating skyview temple. I did however go back into the temple, then back out and then attempt it. I don't know if it will work right after the kikwi cutscene. Sorry if this was already mentioned.
Quick update: Sailcloth is unnecessary, unless you want to save yourself some hearts after every large jump. You can travel up vents without any problems. Link just doesn't have a sailcloth to pull out during the animation.
pivotguyDC1: Not quite. Completing the Ceremony unlocks some of the doors inside the Academy. One of these locked rooms is the instructor that teaches you the spiral charge. So you still much complete the Ceremony (and thus get the sail) in order to learn the spiral charge and thus be able to progress. It's really silly reason, but that's how it is, unless we can find a new major skip to to skip the song of hero or Lavius. The item itself isn't required, but the task of obtaining it is.
pivotguyDC1: Not quite. Completing the Ceremony unlocks some of the doors inside the Academy. One of these locked rooms is the instructor that teaches you the spiral charge. So you still much complete the Ceremony (and thus get the sail) in order to learn the spiral charge and thus be able to progress. It's really silly reason, but that's how it is, unless we can find a new major skip to to skip the song of hero or Lavius. The item itself isn't required, but the task of obtaining it is.
Pretty confident that Lavius can be beaten with just arrows, it just takes a fuckton of time/arrows to do. If you can get into thunderhead without having to do the spiral charge training you could skip the sailcloth.
Heh heh, Lavius. Spiral charge itself is not required to beat the game, but the task of obtaining is required to progress the story (to get the pumpkin soup). You can use a bomb to skip the first phase of lavius, and then fight him with the sword (arrows optional) for the second phase. It's a shame how trigger based this game is, cause otherwise a lot of items/quests could be skipped.
Yeah, sailcloth skip seems impossible for now. No sailcloth = no Instructor = no spiral charge = no pumpkin soup = no lavius = no song of hero = no win. A way into that room would be helpful. Some other event would hopefully unlock the doors. The only thing I could think of is that playing in a blank game crap and then loading, which would load you into the original academy. If I recall correctly, that one has open doors. But that would be a pain and certainly not worth it.
Also, the doors don't unlock from the ceremony. Finishing the ceremony puts you into Academy 2, which has all the doors locked for the Fi sequence. Finishing Fi puts it into Academy 3. For some reason, skipping Academy 2 and finishing Fi causes the doors to remain locked instead of going to Academy 3.
Also, the doors don't unlock from the ceremony. Finishing the ceremony puts you into Academy 2, which has all the doors locked for the Fi sequence. Finishing Fi puts it into Academy 3. For some reason, skipping Academy 2 and finishing Fi causes the doors to remain locked instead of going to Academy 3.
If you load a file and then trigger a loading zone during the fade-out, you spawn in the new map at the file's xyz coordinates (kinda the opposite of BiTwarp). I guess you could try to see if there's any place in the game you can save to spawn inside Owlan's room?
There is one problem with that. Owlan's room is not loaded if you don't open the door. You can try this out with walk through walls cheat. Idk if bitwarp loads this room then somehow.
I was thinking it might, similar to how it loads whatever dungeon room you spawn in.
I think someone has testing this some time back; xRedShifterx was it? I don't think he tested ever statue, since there's like 100. Also you might need to do this from the entering the academy, not the owlan's room. I could be wrong but I think someone told me that if you use cheat to go through the wall then owlan is still there. Which means that all the "rooms" in the academy are one big room in terms of loading and that the doors do nothing. I could be wrong though (it's been a while since anyone has attempted this) it should probably be confirmed.
It's a long shot, but I wouldn't mind trying out all the statutes whenever I have time. I just need someone to explain what I need to do exactly.
Just save somewhere, then do BiT, go to the door to Knight Academy, load your file, and open the KA door as the screen is fading out. You might need to open the door a little earlier than that, it'll prolly work if you open the door and load the file with the same A press.
It doesn't seem like it's going to work. I noticed that the bazaar statue would spawn me somewhat close to the study room at the south end of the academy. So I tried all of the ones close to it using Kazooies maps. One statue in fire sanctuary spawned me halfway up the stairs, but that's the closest I ever got to even getting on the second floor. Makes me wonder if the second floor is even loaded. But anyway, the only maps I was able to use were the ones here on the site, so there may have been something I missed.
There is one problem with that. Owlan's room is not loaded if you don't open the door. You can try this out with walk through walls cheat. Idk if bitwarp loads this room then somehow.
This is true. I tested all the statues. As far as I know, no statues load you into any building. I haven't tested all, because it seems pointless. BitWarp, as you know, is xyz. None of the statues are close to 0x or 0y, or I would assume so. And I'm pretty sure the buildings are centered on a map. When I did BiTWarp with beds and doors and check the map, Link was not even on the map.
The second statue in Fire Sanctuary appears to be the closest we'll get. But the interesting thing about it is it seems to be able to spawn me with the second floor loaded, but it may just be because I'm close to the stairs. I did my best to try and spawn right between the walls, but I either get pushed into the stairs or out of bounds.
Original image
But hey, this is something I guess. ;D
Original image
Original image
But hey, this is something I guess. ;D
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Alright, so I found that thunderhead early works after beating skyview temple. I did however go back into the temple, then back out and then attempt it. I don't know if it will work right after the kikwi cutscene. Sorry if this was already mentioned.
When I was doing a Harp run earlier, I save and quit on the prompt after getting the Ruby Tablet and when I did a BiTWarp to Upper Academy I also activated Thunderhead. I wasn't purposely trying to do it, but I load files really late on warping and when I was finished with Earth Temple I noticed Thunderhead was opened. Not exactly sure if opening Thunderhead at this point would help Any% though.
Thats known, its later than the current place for Early Thunderhead.
Three vids.
The first is well known small time saver leaving Skyloft. just made a vid for those who don't know about it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioOO8-S90pE
Already known, but if you save at a Deep Woods statue after visiting Skyview, then the thunder head cs will play if you select your file. Doesn't matter how late in the game.
Saving in most places after visiting skyview, if you examining a statue will cause thunderhead. For some reason it does work if you saved in Skyview, but it seems to work almost everywhere else. So using the save prompt after Skyview, you can activate thunderhead and save warp back to skyloft simultaneously. Faster than the current method by like 15 seconds: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYuc3C5_gtw
The last one is the crazy one. If you've pushed down the log near the waterfall in Faron Woods and you saved at a Deep Woods statue, both the gates will be open. Magic. Afaik, this seems to be the only things I could get to work in Faron. So just make this file with these conditions, and copy it over to File 3 and you'll be golden for the rest of the game. Note: If you make this file after you enter Skyview, it'll trigger the thunderhead CS automatically, which results in s soft-lock. So you have to make it before you enter the dungeon.
In order for this trick to be useful, you need to copy the file once you've met the criteria so that it's always available. After getting the slingshot, push the log, save in Deep Woods, and copy the file to File 3. A nice bonus of file 3 is that the game automatically loads it in BiT, so the gates are open by default. Takes like 50 seconds to make this file, but definitely worth the time saved: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5adaPmxHpZ8
The first is well known small time saver leaving Skyloft. just made a vid for those who don't know about it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioOO8-S90pE
Already known, but if you save at a Deep Woods statue after visiting Skyview, then the thunder head cs will play if you select your file. Doesn't matter how late in the game.
Saving in most places after visiting skyview, if you examining a statue will cause thunderhead. For some reason it does work if you saved in Skyview, but it seems to work almost everywhere else. So using the save prompt after Skyview, you can activate thunderhead and save warp back to skyloft simultaneously. Faster than the current method by like 15 seconds: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYuc3C5_gtw
The last one is the crazy one. If you've pushed down the log near the waterfall in Faron Woods and you saved at a Deep Woods statue, both the gates will be open. Magic. Afaik, this seems to be the only things I could get to work in Faron. So just make this file with these conditions, and copy it over to File 3 and you'll be golden for the rest of the game. Note: If you make this file after you enter Skyview, it'll trigger the thunderhead CS automatically, which results in s soft-lock. So you have to make it before you enter the dungeon.
In order for this trick to be useful, you need to copy the file once you've met the criteria so that it's always available. After getting the slingshot, push the log, save in Deep Woods, and copy the file to File 3. A nice bonus of file 3 is that the game automatically loads it in BiT, so the gates are open by default. Takes like 50 seconds to make this file, but definitely worth the time saved: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5adaPmxHpZ8
A couple notes on that third vid of TestRunner's:
- You can enter Skyview 0 and leave, save at the statue, and the file won't trigger the thunderhead cutscene in BiT. So I think it's actually opening the Skyview Temple door that causes that to happen.
- What I do for any% runs is push that log down, and instead of visiting the Faron Entry statue, I visit the In the Woods statue to setup the fence version of Early Lake Floria (because I'm rubbish at the rope version). So part of the 50 second cost of making the magic gate-opening file can also be used to make for a quicker setup for that trick, if you choose to use it. In fact, that's how I noticed the upper academy gate was open in BiT; I did that setup, then saved outside Skyview Temple and copied to slot 3 so I could test some Early Thunderhead stuff. Then next time I was in BiT, boom, the gate was open. TestRunner was the one who figured out that it was pushing the log that made the UA gate open. Which still makes no sense to me, but whatever.
- You can enter Skyview 0 and leave, save at the statue, and the file won't trigger the thunderhead cutscene in BiT. So I think it's actually opening the Skyview Temple door that causes that to happen.
- What I do for any% runs is push that log down, and instead of visiting the Faron Entry statue, I visit the In the Woods statue to setup the fence version of Early Lake Floria (because I'm rubbish at the rope version). So part of the 50 second cost of making the magic gate-opening file can also be used to make for a quicker setup for that trick, if you choose to use it. In fact, that's how I noticed the upper academy gate was open in BiT; I did that setup, then saved outside Skyview Temple and copied to slot 3 so I could test some Early Thunderhead stuff. Then next time I was in BiT, boom, the gate was open. TestRunner was the one who figured out that it was pushing the log that made the UA gate open. Which still makes no sense to me, but whatever.
yea, forgot to mention that skyview 0 does not trigger thunderhead. Not sure if it's the fact that the Door is open, the entering Skyview CS, the Fi text when you enter, or some variable that checks if you've entered Skyview 1 yet. This ofc has no effect on the open gates in bit.
Normally, the fence hop is about 10 seconds slower than the rope method (according to parax). With this new glitch, the fence hop is obviously faster, which obsoletes the annoying rope method. Your welcome =P (and yea, props to indy for showing me the glitch initially, and triforcebrawl for finding that first vid. )
Normally, the fence hop is about 10 seconds slower than the rope method (according to parax). With this new glitch, the fence hop is obviously faster, which obsoletes the annoying rope method. Your welcome =P (and yea, props to indy for showing me the glitch initially, and triforcebrawl for finding that first vid. )
Considering the fact that skyview temple has a zero version of the map... Is it possible that the forest where the kikwis if i spelled that right also has a zero map? Considering how many versions of that map there are. you see I'm interested in exploiting this glitch for speed runs and beta stuff as well so just curious.
LOL BETA-QUEST!
Theoretically, yes. Most areas have multiple versions as you progress through the quest. Although I don't know you you'd get into other areas "early". And the conditions for "version_1" may be nothing in most areas, meaning that that there is no "version_0".
Theoretically, yes. Most areas have multiple versions as you progress through the quest. Although I don't know you you'd get into other areas "early". And the conditions for "version_1" may be nothing in most areas, meaning that that there is no "version_0".
I'm pretty sure the trigger that loads Forest one is placing the tablet opening the hole in the clouds if we can glitch our way through the clouds before the tablet gets placed we'll get to forest 0 right?
Last edited 07 May 2012, 00:07 by kenshen.