BiT Research Topic

I still don't think Hero mode is NG+. The fact that treasures carry over doesn't affect the run very much. If can find a way to make all the files during the run, it's not NG+, it would be completely legitimate in an RTA. Basically that means that someone would need to find a way to get light tower CS to happen before you actually unlock it.
NG+ would be loading data from other files. So you could open skykeep and light tower early. You'd still need to play through most of the game (get arrows). TBH, it actually doesn't sound that bad, since you play most of the game and skip the boring parts. You could even skip the sail cloth.
A duped file run would be to go straight to demise, since you just have the file start at the last save before him, making it about a 10 minute run.

Screw this talk. We can argue about NG+, but in reality, we don't do RTA that isn't hero mode, so there is no NG+. Anything new with CS early stuff?

It is possible to get skykeep early by loading data from a file that have unlocked the stone of trials.
You have a file with stone of trials unlocked.
Now just like with light tower early you have to save at a same prompt while playing through the game.
After saving, activate BiT and BiTSave over the file with stone of trials unlocked. This will give you stone of trials during BiT.
Now go to the statue where you insert the stone. Load the file that saved at a save prompt and then insert the stone when the screen is fading out.
Just like with the light tower early, you will load the file and activate the cutscene.

This should work with all cutscenes that you can activate during BiT.

It is possible to start the opening thunderhead CS before it is unlocked on any file. I can provide a vid if you want. If we can find a way to load that CS on a file... But more importantly I feel as though this shows that it is possible to start CS in BiT before they are unlocked. Maybe it is possible to find a way to start the opening Light Tower CS early too. Although this may be just the crazy workings of BiT and one big dead end :/

Dunno if this was known or not.

TestRunner wrote

It is possible to start the opening thunderhead CS before it is unlocked on any file. I can provide a vid if you want. If we can find a way to load that CS on a file... But more importantly I feel as though this shows that it is possible to start CS in BiT before they are unlocked. Maybe it is possible to find a way to start the opening Light Tower CS early too. Although this may be just the crazy workings of BiT and one big dead end :/

Dunno if this was known or not.

Yes, I know that it is possible. Just save in deep woods after opening the entrance to skyview temple and you'll trigger the thunderhead CS whenever you select that file during BiT. (There is already a theory out there for why this happens, and it seems to be pretty solid)

And I noticed something that could ruin the theory about being able to start any cutscene by loading a file at the same time.
I think the reason it worked with skykeep is because it actually seem to load a new scene when you trigger it. The screen fades out, just like it does when you enter a loading zone. So it may not be possible to do this with any cutscene after all.

So, even if we can trigger some cutscenes without having actually unlocked them on any file, we may not be able to actually load them on a file, and only in BiT.

Also, has someone been able to load skyloft with the skykeep entrance present during BiT? I do not care if you can reach it or not, I just want to know if someone has been able to load that skyloft at all, like during the night or w/e. Trying to watch the skykeep cutscene during BiT will just crash the console, so that's a no go. And I haven't been able to enter Night Skyloft during BiT with a file that have skykeep unlocked selected.
If so, how?

Also, watching the Skykeep cutscene on a file apparently unlocks Stone of Trials.

Btw, I got it to work while I was in Earth Temple. It triggered when you load data from a file in BiT and then select and cancel a bird statue. Or you could do it many the other ways; like push a the box roll into the tree, open the graveyard, etc. I am not really sure if it would go anywhere, since it doesn't load a new area like in Skykeep. But we did manage to load CS before they happen. So I'll probably work on one of two things. Either find a way to load the thunderhead CS onto files, or start the Early Light Tower CS early.

I don't have a file at that point, so I can't test the skykeep in night BiT. There are so many things that seem to affect what happens and whether it crashes or not. Not sure if it's just the fact that skykeep is open is what's crashing or if there is something else. New files will crash, and the file I had in Earth Temple crashed, but my new 0-char file did not crash.

TestRunner wrote

Btw, I got it to work while I was in Earth Temple. It triggered when you load data from a file in BiT and then select and cancel a bird statue. Or you could do it many the other ways; like push a the box roll into the tree, open the graveyard, etc. I am not really sure if it would go anywhere, since it doesn't load a new area like in Skykeep. But we did manage to load CS before they happen. So I'll probably work on one of two things. Either find a way to load the thunderhead CS onto files, or start the Early Light Tower CS early.

I don't have a file at that point, so I can't test the skykeep in night BiT. There are so many things that seem to affect what happens and whether it crashes or not. Not sure if it's just the fact that skykeep is open is what's crashing or if there is something else. New files will crash, and the file I had in Earth Temple crashed, but my new 0-char file did not crash.

A clean BiT file will not crash if you have it selected and exit a house during the night. A 100% file that have saved outside of fire sanctuary doesn't seem to crash either (works for both me and kazooie). Anyway, the fact that we're able to load cutscenes before actually unlocking them on a file has been known for a long time (and we both know that), and we can't seem to use them to actually transfer the data over to a file, which sucks... I think it'll only work with cutscenes that have transitions.

Also, I did some testing and I think that I accessed night skyloft during the day, or something. It is messed up anyway.
The file had skykeep unlocked early, it was on a file that had just saved the loftwing. But when I accessed this weird skyloft skykeep wasn't present (but the statue was facing skykeep as if it was unlocked, and the stone was inserted).
There were torches all over skyloft, and they were lighted up, as if it was night.
No NPCs present. There was however a bat outside of the goddess statue entrance.
The bars blocking the goddess statue were spawned.
It basically looks like I am in the Fi Night Escort, but it is day. Kinda messed up.

Edit: after looking around further I'm pretty sure that I'm in the Fi Escort, but it is day. Exactly the same actors are loaded. It is so weird that it is day though.

Edit2: I entered and exited a house. The game now thinks that I've finished the ceremony.
If I try to enter the sky I start to fly around fake skyloft. I can't dismount from the loftwing because I haven't unlocked the ability to do so yet. (what many don't know is that you unlock this & Fi when you insert the first stone tablet)
I also have access to the loftwing training by flying into the loading zone (this is possible until you've inserted the first stone tablet. After inserting the first tablet, the regular loading zones that takes you to the sky appears.)
After accessing the training again the game goes back to thinking that I haven't won the race yet. (and the race will trigger)

Edit3: I managed to unlock light columns early, but it requires files that have already unlocked the tablet pieces.
I noticed some interesting stuff when doing this. If you do not activate the first tablet piece first (and start with the 2nd one for example), when you insert the piece, the game will act as if it was the first piece after the red light column has activated and you'll start the cutscene that takes you to the academy. HOWEVER, the cutscene's bugged. Fi and the fat guy isn't there and the camera get stuck under the ground and it seemed like nothing was happening for like half a minute, after that i decided to skip the cutscene and it properly took me to the save prompt. Everyone wil act as if you're about to leave skyloft, even though you activated the red column.
Only the red column was activated after this since you used the 2nd tablet piece.
I went back there and attempted to insert the 1st piece. The 3rd piece spawned when I tried to insert the 1st one while the 2nd one was already inserted. The green column spawned and no cutscene started after that. The 3rd tablet piece is also gone. Links sound's also muted. You could hear the sword and such, but links voice was gone. (it probably changed to the bokoblin soundset just like it did with the statue wrong warp I found. I could not test the fall damage sound though, so I can't confirm this).

Being able to unlock columns early means that it is possible to skip the skyview and earth temple bosses. And being able to skip the earth temple boss means that we just have to grab the bomb bag and then leave.

We could actually go and get mitts & bombs before skyview temple. I do not think this'd be useful unless we find a trick that requires bombs though, since we have to get slingshot first, or the game will just softlock when you get an item.
And you can't use the Hook Beetle unless you have the regular beetle, which sucks. If the regular beetle wasn't required we could just have skipped skyview temple entirely.

I'll see if I can upload some videos tonight. My brother's currently playing Sc2 on the computer that I use for recording...

Great stuff you have there guys! Sadly all of those tricks is not allowed in speedrun and races which sucks. I read all new posts and didn't understand much. Video would make much more sense if somebody can upload some. I really wanna understand this thing :)

That day thing is weird, but then again so is BiT. Like when you activate the opening thunderhead CS in bit night, it turns day halfway through the CS. I can't walk around to see what changed, since you get soft locked.

Looking forward to that vid of the early Light pillar, sounds awesome. NG+ runs seem to be getting more and more interesting to me. You would only need to beat AC and SK. It's a shame you'd still need Gust Bellows for that SK room. I wonder if we could do something interesting with the Emerald pillar early. Cause then that would be legit in a non-NG+ run, since it takes only about 4 minutes to place the tablet. My guess is no, but we'll see.

Quote

CloudMax: err. Now I'm confused. I was going to record the early light column trick and stumbled across a problem... 1. I can't seem to raise the damn pillar that you insert the stone into anymore. It won't go up when I use the skyward strike on the emblem.
CloudMax: Hmh.. I managed to raise it by first selecting my 100% file (this triggers the Fi conversation), and then select a file that have raised the pillar, before the conversation is over. this swill make the pillar raise. But doing it this way would mean that we only can perform one early light column in a run, since one file would have to be a file close to the end of the game where all tablets is already inserted. Can't seem to figure out how I managed to do it yesterday. <.<'

I'm in a bit of trouble..

So I can't seem to figure out how I raised the pillar yesterday. Now I have to use a file that's quite far into the game to trigger the Fi conversation in the Goddess Statue and then select a file that hasn't come quite far into the game yet (any file that haven't inserted the 3rd tablet yet seem to work) during the Fi conversation to make it raise.
Not only that, it seems like this removes my tablet pieces during BiT so that I can't insert them anymore. This is a problem. The solution I came up with for this is to kill myself with bombs so that the room is reloaded and I get the pieces back. This works, sure.

So, all this works, but there's a problem with it..
It requires a file that have inserted all 3 tablet pieces already, which means that we only can perform one early light column per run.
And it also requires bombs so that you can kill yourself, which means that we only can do it for the 3rd light column... It is the one that saves the most time, but unless I can figure out how I managed to get the pillar out of the floor without my 100% file, we won't be able to perform it on the 2nd column. :S

This is what I do now:
I save at a save prompt on the file that I want to get early light column on.
Start BiT
Enter the goddess statue with the file that have all 3 tablet pieces selected.
Select my 100% file to trigger the Fi conversation.
Select the file with the 3 tablet pieces and when the Fi conversation finishes, the pillar raises from the floor.
I now pull out bombs to kill myself while the file with all 3 tablets is selected.
I choose continue. I now have all 3 tablet pieces.
I insert the tablet piece and wait until link have inserted the tablet piece and stands still, then count to 3, and load the file I want to get early light column on.

This sucks because I have to kill myself AND it requires a file that have already inserted all 3 pieces...

I'll make a video of it anyway and hopefully I'll be able to figure this out...

Edit: Inserting the 1st tablet piece after the 3rd one will crash the game/console. It didn't crash when I did the same thing with the 2nd piece instead of the 3rd one yesterday.

Edit2: Screw everything I said about needing a file that had inserted all 3 tablets, blah blah blah. It is obviously related to the area where the file has saved, just like when you trigger cutscenes in Skyloft during BiT... Saving outside Fire Sanctuary (after finishing fire sanctuary) will trigger one of the Fi conversations when you select the file in the Goddess Statue.
I'll look more into this.

Edit3:
Early Light Column: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b96B-Rwgrlk
Fi Escort During Day (on any file): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Md8gBcPZR4E
Early Skykeep: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGab4Y-ykrU

Can you do thunderhead early right away and get the first song before the first trip to faron?  You won't have the harp so you couldn't do the trial first trip, but it could save a trip later on.

CloudMax wrote

Yes, I know that it is possible. Just save in deep woods after opening the entrance to skyview temple and you'll trigger the thunderhead CS whenever you select that file during BiT. (There is already a theory out there for why this happens, and it seems to be pretty solid)

What theory is that?

Just opened the thunderhead early without using a preexisting file... that means speedrun-legal. Play up til Skyview, open the door, then go back outside and save in Deep Woods. Do BiT, go to a bird statue, and activate it and select your file saved outside Skyview at the same time. Then save, and shortly after the "Saved." message pops up, load the file. When the file loads you'll find the Tower of Light raised and the thunderhead open. Pretty sweet. I'll get a vid up soon.

This seems sufficiently confusing enough that I'd rather not do any more SS attempts til we have the most optimal place to do this though <_< In case you don't have to be saved in Deep Woods right after opening Skyview.

Paraxade wrote

Just opened the thunderhead early without using a preexisting file... that means speedrun-legal. Play up til Skyview, open the door, then go back outside and save in Deep Woods. Do BiT, go to a bird statue, and activate it and select your file saved outside Skyview at the same time. Then save, and shortly after the "Saved." message pops up, load the file. When the file loads you'll find the Tower of Light raised and the thunderhead open. Pretty sweet. I'll get a vid up soon.

This seems sufficiently confusing enough that I'd rather not do any more SS attempts til we have the most optimal place to do this though <_< In case you don't have to be saved in Deep Woods right after opening Skyview.

Glad this was finally found. Having to load pre existing files is silly.

Pheenoh wrote

Glad this was finally found. Having to load pre existing files is silly.

It's still only for the thunderhead though, the other cutscenes might still require another file.  Though this at least gives hope that the others might be possible too.

Turns out the save is unnecessary, just load a file right before the cutscene starts playing (doesn't even have to be saved in Skyloft) and the thunderhead will be open on that file. You just have to queue it behind another cutscene to give you time to select the file before it starts playing. The fastest way to do it is to load the file right at the end of the cutscene that plays every time you do BiT :P

Paraxade wrote

Turns out the save is unnecessary, just load a file right before the cutscene starts playing (doesn't even have to be saved in Skyloft) and the thunderhead will be open on that file. You just have to queue it behind another cutscene to give you time to select the file before it starts playing. The fastest way to do it is to load the file right at the end of the cutscene that plays every time you do BiT :P

Yeah, that's the whole point of the glitch.
You have to load a file right before a cutscene starts.
Also, whether or not you've saved before a cutscene gives different effects. (I noticed this 2 days ago when I got the Fi Escort During Day thingy).
For example, if I were to load a file that have saved at a cutscene save prompt before loading at a light column cutscene, I will watch that cutscene on the file that I load.
However, if I were to do it on a file that isn't saved at a cutscene before doing this, I instead end up in skyloft with all the actors from the Fi Escort loaded.

This also explains why kazooie and i didn't find the early light tower and thunderhead. When we were looking for it we thought that the file had to be located at a save prompt for early light tower to work, and you've now proven that that isn't the case. Whether or not you've saved before a cutscene seems to give different results though. (this is important to remember).
It is impossible to pull off what you did if you had saved at a save prompt, because I tried to do what you did, but with a file located at a save prompt instead a few days ago.
I queued the cutscenes by saving outside deepwoods and selecting that file in BiT, and then load another file before the saving was done. This didn't work, because when I selected the file at the save prompt, it clears the cutscene queue in BiT, so it wont trigger after I'm done saving anymore. You can cancel cutscene queues by simply selecting another file that wouldn't trigger them, before they actually trigger.

I still do not believe that it will be possible to get early skykeep and light columns, because they are triggered in quite different ways.
The Skykeep cutscene does not work like the light tower, thunderhead cutscenes, etc., you have to actually insert the stone in the statue and you'll load a new scene. (the screen fades out and the cutscene starts), just like with loading zones.
I do not believe it will be possible to trigger that cutscene for this reason.
The light Columns early seems more likely to be possible without another file, but I still do not think it'll be possible, unless we manage to trigger the tablet insert cutscenes (which I doubt is possible)


Oh, and also, the theory we (kazooie and I) had about loading cutscenes in BiT.
We believe that it is related to cutscenes you've watched in the area where you save at. (or possibly flags. I think this is more likely)
This is why for example when you save in deepwoods for the first time, you won't trigger any cutscenes in BiT.
If you activate the Switch outside of Skyview then save in deepwoods, you will trigger a cutscene.

Same goes for Earth Temple. If you save there before opening the temple entrance you won't trigger a cutscene.
If you collect all keys and open it, you will trigger one.

And the list continues. Saving outside of Fire Sanctuary seems to be the most promising one we've found so far, since that one has multiple flags that is set (if it is flags that is used) for each fire you remove, and opening the temple, and entering the temple.

So it is related to cutscenes/flags/something in the area that you saved in. We also discussed that it could have to do with skippable cutscenes only. Like for example, moving a log in deepwoods wont have an effects on the cutscenes that play, but having watched different cutscenes that is possible to skip in hero mode will.

With some testing we should be able to determine which one it is.

Here's the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5Z1XAMcB8E

Alright, this has probably been seen, and said before here, I just haven't seen anything about it.
After you execute a BiT, and you save and load the file, if you reset and open the file up again, you'll be back in Skyloft. I thought that this might be faster than going to a statue and flying back. Just a thought.

Hornlitz: Very old, that should be on the site too. Just load the file shortly after saving rather than doing both at the same time.

Anyway, how do you trigger the thunderhead cutscene with the Earth Temple? I was going to time which was faster but it's not working for me. Tried it before ET, after opening the door, at the save prompt after finishing the dungeon, and manually saved after finishing the dungeon... nothing on any of those.

Paraxade wrote

Hornlitz: Very old, that should be on the site too. Just load the file shortly after saving rather than doing both at the same time.

Anyway, how do you trigger the thunderhead cutscene with the Earth Temple? I was going to time which was faster but it's not working for me. Tried it before ET, after opening the door, at the save prompt after finishing the dungeon, and manually saved after finishing the dungeon... nothing on any of those.

Well, blame kazooie and me for that then. We said that it happened if you do it after entering the temple.. but it could obviously be related to some trigger way further into the game, like for example the bokoblin base... I never actually tried to do it at earth temple directly after entering it, so I just assumed that that was the case when Kazooie told me so. >_<'

Hornlitz wrote

Alright, this has probably been seen, and said before here, I just haven't seen anything about it.
After you execute a BiT, and you save and load the file, if you reset and open the file up again, you'll be back in Skyloft. I thought that this might be faster than going to a statue and flying back. Just a thought.

http://zeldaspeedruns.com/ss/BiT/back-in-time-save-bitsave

You actually perform a BiTSave when you BiTWarp because BiTSave is just when you load the file before it has finished saving, so that not all information has been saved yet.


________

Edit1:
Load a file and start the title screen cutscene:
Start BiT
BiTSave over a file (you save so that you have a respawn location set)
Kill yourself
Continue and load at the same time

You will load the file and get stuck in the cutscene that plays at the title screen. (it looks at the sky above skyloft)
_________

You can do the trick that allows you to play on a file and save while the file still says "Hero Mode" and causes the intro cutscene to run without using BiT at all with the use of http://zeldaspeedruns.com/ss/misc/opening-empty-files. It is extremely simple.
It only works with hero mode though since the game will crash if you try to load a new adventure file.

And this glitch REALLY need a name.. Some people call it NG+.... But that doesn't make any sense because we call hero mode files ng+ as well...
_________

A new way to overwrite files in BiT:
Everything except for the playtime is overwritten (which means that by doing this, it's possible to set your 100% files playtime to 0 minutes.)
1. Have the file you want copy in slot 3.
2. Select the file that you want to overwrite.
3. Die. (A respawn location must be set, and you can't use BiT skyloft. (using BiT skyloft would trigger the title screen cutscene. I enter the goddess statue and kill myself there)
4. Continue and load the file at the same time.
5. Mash A as fast as you can to open up the File Selection.
You will now load the file you selected in step 2, but because you opened the file selection in step 5 the game loaded all the data from file 3 instead.
6. Save.
Even though it loaded all the data from file 3, you DID open the file that you selected in step 2, so when you save, you'll save over that slot instead.
You'll keep the playtime that you had before overwriting the file.

You can copy new hero mode files this way (just place a new hero mode file in slot 3). This works like the glitch I mentioned above where you can save your progress, but the file will still say "Hero Mode" in the selection, and it will trigger the intro cutscene, so this is not a good way to copy hero mode files. The file wont be "clean" anymore.

This is useless, but it is something.

I also tried a variation of the overwrite glitch mentioned above.
In the step where you mash A to open the file select, hold the control stick down so that you'll enter the loading zone to exit the goddess statue.
You'll get the same result except that you spawn in skyloft instead.
What's even more interesting is that when you quit the game now (save & quit or die & quit), you will return to the title screen. you won't return to the file select. So no file will be selected.

So it's not possible to use it to get a Hero Mode file that starts at 0:00 to allow the ingame clock to be accurate?

I guess with all the messing around with files, it wouldn't really be accurate anyway, though.

Paraxade wrote

Hornlitz: Very old, that should be on the site too. Just load the file shortly after saving rather than doing both at the same time.

Anyway, how do you trigger the thunderhead cutscene with the Earth Temple? I was going to time which was faster but it's not working for me. Tried it before ET, after opening the door, at the save prompt after finishing the dungeon, and manually saved after finishing the dungeon... nothing on any of those.

That save statue before earth temple tiggered thunderhead opening cutscene when I tested it. If I remember correctly. Before opening door to temple and having completed key thunderhead cutscene came when I rolled tree what drops blue rupee or pushing box. And after opening door to earth temple. Batreaux door opening and thunderhead cutscene both started from to rolling to the tree. You can't trigger that cutscene with save staute in BiT.

Hope this helps :)

TheOthin wrote

So it's not possible to use it to get a Hero Mode file that starts at 0:00 to allow the ingame clock to be accurate?

I guess with all the messing around with files, it wouldn't really be accurate anyway, though.

Nope, sadly it isn't.
Well, I guess it would be possible to reach a save statue in the game without actually changing anything at all on the save so it would be like a unused file (except that the file now have a set respawn location, which does make a difference during BiT), but the time it takes to reach the statue would be counted in the playtime so it would say 0:00, but it would be more like half a minute...
So no, this isn't useable to get a accurate ingame clock.

CloudMax wrote

You can do the trick that allows you to play on a file and save while the file still says "Hero Mode" and causes the intro cutscene to run without using BiT at all with the use of http://zeldaspeedruns.com/ss/misc/opening-empty-files. It is extremely simple.
It only works with hero mode though since the game will crash if you try to load a new adventure file.

And this glitch REALLY need a name.. Some people call it NG+.... But that doesn't make any sense because we call hero mode files ng+ as well...

It's called Duped New Files. http://zeldaspeedruns.com/ss/BiT/back-in-time-files. Let's not confuse it with NG+, which is referred to using BitLoading. And people, don't call Hero mode NG+, it's just Hero mode. >_>

Also, Parax: THANK YOU!!! Someone finally found a way! This proves that as long as we can find a way to start the CS early, we can load it on the file. Not really sure if early SK or light pillars are possible though, but I'll keep my fingers crossed since those would cut off a huge amount of time.

Dammit. 2 days off. Thats all I take off. Guys, great work. This is such a huge step. I may get back into SS because of how much I hate imp and scrapper. Any known side-effects of A: Skipping windmill/imp stuff, and B: Farores Courage early? I understand that Courage is out of the way and believed to be worthless, but I think it may change some cutscene triggers or something.

I started a new file last night using pretty much all the known skips now.

Sailcloth skip
Early light tower
Early Lake Floria
Countless bit warps

So on and so forth. I activated the light tower as Parax did, and got the song before heading to the desert the first time. I cleared the second silent realm before I stopped and haven't run into anything unusual yet.

TestRunner wrote

It's called Duped New Files. http://zeldaspeedruns.com/ss/BiT/back-in-time-files. Let's not confuse it with NG+, which is referred to using BitLoading. And people, don't call Hero mode NG+, it's just Hero mode. >_>

Also, Parax: THANK YOU!!! Someone finally found a way! This proves that as long as we can find a way to start the CS early, we can load it on the file. Not really sure if early SK or light pillars are possible though, but I'll keep my fingers crossed since those would cut off a huge amount of time.

Calling it duped new file is just weird, since doing it with the select new file glitch doesn't have anything to do with copying/duping.
And yes, I myself call BiTLoading NG+, but there IS people who call the "duped new file" glitch NG+. No one ever says "duped new file" when talking about it in the IRC, ever.
And yes, Hero Mode should just be called Hero Mode (not NG+ like some people say. They argue that hero mode is ng+ and not bitloading because you keep treasures in hero mode...)

This is why I brought it up. People call everything different things, which is extremely confusing. and it will become even more confusing if we call a glitch "duped new file" when it has nothing at all to do with duping. :/

Trying to define NG+ in Skyward Sword just seems ridiculous. I mean, let's say someone was planning on playing on Normal Mode for some reason. They'd obviously use skip.dat to skip the cutscenes, but that would still entail keeping data that wasn't included in the playthrough in order to get skip.dat activated in the first place. So the only thing that would be considered not some degree of NG+ is Normal Mode with cutscenes, which is just idiotic. I question if there would be any merit to so much as having a Normal Mode category at all, and certainly not one with cutscenes.

While dupe can mean to "duplicate", I was referring to "fool". I call it duped files since you trick the game (or other players) into thinking it's a fresh file when it obviously isn't.

Swiffy wrote

I started a new file last night using pretty much all the known skips now.

Sailcloth skip
Early light tower
Early Lake Floria
Countless bit warps

So on and so forth. I activated the light tower as Parax did, and got the song before heading to the desert the first time. I cleared the second silent realm before I stopped and haven't run into anything unusual yet.

Uhhh. Dumb question: do you mean you played up to the second silent realm, or that you somehow did trials early? Let us know if this indeed works. Hopefully we don't get screwed by scrapper when delivering the water or soup.