OoT3D: 100% Segmented Discussion [NG+ Saw]

No I agree Norkix because in order to warp to Nocturne, we'd need to go all the way to go all the way to Kakiriko Village, and then to the Kokiri forest. However you only have to go to the Lost Woods to set your warp to WW to Gauntlets CS. Plus I forgot about the skulltulas. This will definitely be a better choice. Also can't we get some of the child spirit skulltulas as adult link?

Um... I dunno, ben. I suppose I could check later this morning.

We don't need to grab the two in child spirit until we become adult. You can reach the child Spirit area by  hookshot clipping the torch.  ;)

New Seg routes, updated to be more explanatory and streamlined.

To let you all know how I route, each bullet on this route will be an entire area's worth of actions. Each bullet will end with an exit point for that area. It makes the segments seem longer, but I'm just being detailed. GS = Gold Skulltula; HP = Heart Piece; <3 x.xx = Total Heart count

Seg 1:
-To KF
-Rupee route to Sword (20 rupees), turn right and climb Saria's house for bridge rupee (25 rupees), enter Mido's house
-two 5 rupee chests (35 rupees), exit
-5 rupees behind house (40 rupees), pond-hop rupees (45 rupees), enter-exit shop, pond-hop again (50 rupees), enter shop
-5 rupees behind counter, buy shield, buy nuts, exit (0 rupees)
-WWT escape, to Hyrule Field (5 rupees)
-To Castle Town
-To market
-Talk to Malon, to Hyrule Castle
-Leave and reenter (gets Malon in map), get Wierd Egg, head to Talon (you can jump from the bridge to the upper area without getting caught by bridge guard, its pretty lenient), to Courtyard
-Pwn guards with sidehops
-Lullaby
-To KV
-Trade Saw, equip sword, Cucco bottle, Impa house HP (3.25 <3), To Graveyard
-Bugs from rock, Sun's Song, Sun's Song HP (3.5 <3), to KV
-to DMT
-to GC
-Darunia deku sticks, staircase Deku stick, to Lost Woods
-Soil GS in Deku clearing, get more bugs from grass, to SFM
-Saria's song, S&Q

Segment 2:
-To LW, Follow-Along HP (3.75 <3), to GC
-Bracelet, Dancing Jar HP (4 <3)
-To DMT
-Open Cavern, Backflip on top for HP (4.25 <3) enter cavern, S&Q

Segment 3
DC 100%, reenter and S&Q (5.25 <3)

I'll have more details on Segment 3 later, haven't actually completed testing it yet. Tell me what you guys think of the improvements, give me feedback, toast can complain about irrelvant stuff, watever.

Wouldn't it be faster to make segment one open the path to LW? It would save around 5 minutes of backtracking.

I agree with Fox on that.
Also, any reason we have to buy the shield? We can just advance text with b to get the mini map and then get the shield in DC. This also sves us from getting a burnt shield from troll fires keese.

... Yeah. Yeah I guess it would. I think that's why Tom's original route had us go get Saria's Song in Segment 1... Damn, I'm an IDIOT! Thanks, Fox (reference intended ;))

I thought you needed the shield in order to click through the text... lol, but now i think about, the Deku nut breaks the sign, and that's what makes WWT work. Okay, I'll edit the route again.

Edit: updated the route.

Nah just advance text with b.
For rupees I suggest behind Mido's house (I think it's his house), pond hop, and behind the counter.

^ waaaaay ahead of ya, bro. ;)

I'm going to disappear for a bit (chores :(), be back in like an hour and a half.

So if we can get all of the spirit skulltulas with adult link, I guess there's really no need to WW to Silver gauntlets CS, so I suggest we just. WW to the double Saria CS. However, I'm sure there are still several others that work well. For instance,  a good one is Zora's Fountain - > JJB. You'll get text saying you learned the Sun's Song,  oob, and re spawn JJB. This is good because it'll be easy to set the warp because you'll be right there as soon as you get FW. Right now,  just about anything is better than the creation CS :P

Ben, I was right: we do need shield. Otherwise, when you use B to bring up the minimap, you pull out the Saw, cancelling the WWT. I'll edit the route AGAIN to have the 55 rupee route. Again, please tell me if I can organize them better.

Damn I forgot about the saw... I'm doubting this would work, but would the new navi method of WWT prevent you from needing a shield?

No, ben. No it won't and you forget that we get Hylian Shield on the way out of graveyard, so there is no fear of being trolled by Keese.

DC 100%
-Blow up wall, right side of room, blow up wall
-Use Baby Dodongo to blow up wall, grab Skulltula, to Lizalfos fight.
-Lizalfos fight: 4-cycle by using a normal slash then a jump attack.
-Light torches
-Press switch, to other side
-Lower Staircase, Vine GS
-Backflip trick onto Armos, Switch
-Cross bridge
-Hellfire Skip 1
-Lizalfos 2
-Hellfire Skip 2
-Get Bombs
-Lower jaw
-DO NOT GET TROLLED BY KEESE! GS behind bomb wall in back, kill KD

How much time does NG+ Saw save? You could get the Saw pretty quickly with FW to get back and forth to LW. I mean it seems obvious that it does save some time but it is really enough to want to run NG+ instead of NG? But then I had a weird idea to head for Deku right away and leave with the Sling. You could use the sling in DC I guess but you could probably also use it to CS skip ZL using the guard's bomb. That might be an OK idea but I'm not sure it is if you can't just equip sword and go past Mido normally.

Your route gets bracelet before saria's song somehow. You might want to fix that.

Could Saria's House -> Kokiri Forest work for a WW to Nocturne from Deku? I heard it crashed, which would be a shame... Having Nocturne early could save some time here and there because of the warp itself, not even counting the shadow early?

Yeah R0bd0g I've tested that Nocturne WW several times and it always crashes.
I semi agree about NG+ saw. I'm curious how much time it really does save.
What do you mean about using a guard's bomb to CS skip ZL?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRFzTsM2OKE
First try BAM! The guard can throw the bomb different ways, which makes this a bit difficult.

The only problem with the ZL cutscene skip is that you would lose the saw if you started with it. And using Farore's wind might be good for each part of the trading quest that does not have a timer. It ultimately depends on how much time the saw saves.

The reason Tom and I chose NG+ Saw was because it allows more leniency with the adult routing. Instead of building around the trading quest, we can focus on a dungeon order that allows for streamlined GS and HP collection. It just makes the routing easier is all. If you guys want to use something else, there's a Hammer NG+ route that I put weeks into in the other thread. Or, we could use Farore's Wind, which I honestly don't like. Just because we can WW everywhere doesn't mean it's the best choice. Plus, that would take us back to a single segment Child 1, which may be a problem for some people because the old Hammer route was about 2.5 hours from opening to Master Sword. I just don't think FW is worth it.

Also, apparently my edit that fixed the thing with Bracelet before Saria's Song did not actually go through, so I will fix that.

Edit: Robdog seems to think you can get Saw by using Farore's Wind, and the rest of you seem to think that we keep our NG+ item after pulling Master Sword. You guys might want to check your facts... We could RI Farore's Wind as adult to warp long distances, i guess, but it won't be on B.

why don't we just stop with the ng+ bullshit and make routes for 100% and mst no ng+, I find ng+ routes retarded honestly cause it's all we have for this game, rba is banned for mst but yet we rba to get it started. and 100% ng+ come on no one is going to make a file to rba a saw for 100% unless they have a file already, but do what you want. i'd run this if it wasn't ng+, ng+ routes are just ridiculous.

...

You sound like a YouTuber. I don't know where you're from, but here on planet Earth, speedrunning is getting through the game as fast as possible no matter what. There are no rules against NG+, and its actually really fun to mess around with.

Go make your own route if you're so pissed we are trying to make a fast route. This thread is not for complaining about speedruns. It's about making them happen.

LttpMmOot wrote

why don't we just stop with the ng+ bullshit and make routes for 100% and mst no ng+, I find ng+ routes retarded honestly cause it's all we have for this game, rba is banned for mst but yet we rba to get it started. and 100% ng+ come on no one is going to make a file to rba a saw for 100% unless they have a file already, but do what you want. i'd run this if it wasn't ng+, ng+ routes are just ridiculous.

We do not catch bugs on B while the saw is on the II button.  :P

Just thought of something with routing child link. After Jabu we will be able to obtain all of the gold skulltulas in Kakariko as Child Link. Perhaps we make it so we grab the skulltula near Kakariko in Hyrule Field, play the Sun's Song, go into Kakariko and set the warp point for the Nocturne cutscene. We'll be able to head into the well via Navi Dive as well as get the Dampe Heart Piece and 11 gold skulltulas.  

*Edit: Before anyone asks about the skulltula on the ladder, we can use a bombchu from the well.

"speedrunning is getting through the game as fast as possible no matter what"
But you spend a few hours setting up the file?

Anyway any non-sword NG+ route doesn't work with the ZL CS skip since IDK how you get back past Mido after getting the sling.

You know, I guess at some point you have to walk across Hyrule Field in order to go adult, and it's not that far out of the way to detour over to the Kakariko entrance along the way, so you could just go to Kak, cast fw, and save. Then you'd clear out deku and head for adult after nocturne. It guess it just seemed a little wrong to me to go to Kakariko again without having a mask to deliver. You'd want Prelude before you starting mucking around in the masks though.

There will be a lot of trips to Kakariko so I wouldn't worry too much yet about when you're getting those skulltulas.

No BotW Chus in OoT3D unfortunately, TheWayfaringFox

NG+ Slingshot could save time, but it is an item already picked up for the definition. It couldn't be used for the DC puzzle if the ZL CS skip is used (For that you'd need a damage source, perhaps a GS if it doesn't deal too much). The ZL CS isn't quite long enough in a comparison to the text and actions of the trade game that would be skipped

don't even get me started norkix I can speedrun the game non ng+ faster then you can do it with ng+, and fox if the saw isn't on b then why are you people complaining about dieing and wwt with it, if that is what you are saying fox.

Tom Nook wrote

No BotW Chus in OoT3D unfortunately

This would be after DC, so we can obtain them with bombs. ;)

@r0bd0g We could hold all of the stuff I suggested in Kakariko until later when we do the mask trading sequence. It will stop backtracking.

Tom Nook wrote

NG+ Slingshot could save time, but it is an item already picked up for the definition. It couldn't be used for the DC puzzle if the ZL CS skip is used (For that you'd need a damage source, perhaps a GS if it doesn't deal too much). The ZL CS isn't quite long enough in a comparison to the text and actions of the trade game that would be skipped

You wouldnt have a bullet bag or any ammo.

I personally kinda like the idea of no new game plus for this. I think something like this seems nice:

Seg "0": Cutscene, save.
Seg 1: Sword, shield, enter deku, save.
Seg 2: Slingshot, (climb up and break web?) save.
Seg 3: TSC escape, fairy ocarina, egg, talon, zelda, zl cutscene skip, save.
Seg 4: Bullet bag 40, navi dive to river, silver scale, ruto bottle, (fishing?),kz, fish, enter jabu. Save.

Although im not sure if you would want to do DC first and have bombs/magic to get farores first trip to zoras fountain. The downside to that is having the rang later so i dont know which is faster.

I don't think she appears unless you have magic, GS. I know this applies to Din's Fire, but we'd have to check.

She does not appear without magic. I must say I kind of agree with Gamestabled... However this isn't like the silly any% NG category. I mean, I don't really think NG+ will save very much time. Maybe I'm just saying this because I'm tired of being swordless for the first hour of the MST NG+, but I think NG sounds kind of nice.

This is what's going on in my head right now. I don't own this game it's just my head swims with this stuff >_>. This route probably sucks btw. :p


Segment 1
- Kokiri Sword, Equip
- Deku Shield, Equip and talk to Mido
- Might as well get Deku Sticks here?
- Enter Deku

Segment 2
- Slingshot

Segment 3
- Leave Deku
- 1/2 heart damage from Baba
- TSC escape
- Fairy Ocarina
- To Market
- Chain Rupees?
- Weird Egg
- Tree GS (take 2 hearts damage)
- Wake Talon, push boxes, navigate courtyard
- Zelda's Letter
- ZL CS Skip w/ slingshot and guard bomb
- Talk to Impa to get to Hyrule Field (this will be the closest you'll be to Kakariko, so you should go there now)
- To Kakariko
- Cucco Bottle (you'll want this to get started on Dirt Patches right away)
- To Graveyard
- Sun's Song (this is the only chance to get this before Jabu, and time of day probably isn't going to work out for everything you need before the next chance to get it)
- Back to Kak
- Tower GS
- Bazaar GS
- Show letter to guard
- To GC
- Open the door at the bottom
- Light Torches
- To LW
- Get Bugs from Grass?
- To SFM
- Saria's Song

Segment 4
- To GC via LW
- Goron Bracelet
- To DMT
- Open DC
- DMT HP
- Dirt Patch GS
- Enter DC

Segment 5
- Baby Dodongo Corridor GS (could be saved for when you come back for the scarecrow song GS as adult... how do you plan to get that, BTW?)
- Push the switch (I guess you could split the seg here)
- Staircase room vine GS (the other GS in this room, do you have a hover boots trick for it or will you have to hit the switch and do the dungeon in reverse?)
- Get Bombs
- Bomb the Eyes (I guess you could split the seg here)
- Back room GS
- Beat KD
- Heart Container
- Watch the cutscene, I guess, Goron's Ruby
- Reenter DC

Segment 6
- Up the mountain for magic
- To DMC
- Crate GS
- Climb wall HP, fall into lava
- Megaflip to Double Magic
- To GC
- Spinning Pot HP
- 30 Bomb Bag
- Rock Maze GS
- Get Bugs

Segment 7
- To ZR via Navi Dive
- To ZD
- Diving Game
- Deku Nuts
- Silver Scale (Can you skip this? Is there an adult KZ skip? If not it's like, you have to go here in Child 2 simply to move him, lol, so I'm guessing that's a bad idea?)
- Dive to LH
- Ruto's Letter
- Dirt Patch GS
- Lab wall GS
- Fire Arrow Platform GS
- Fishing HP
- Play with Scarecrow
- To ZD
- Move King Zora
- Torches HP
- Get 2 Fish (I routed this a bit weird b/c I want another fish for Forest)
- Enter Jabu

Segment 8
- Rising water room GS
- Boomerang
- 2 Basement GS

Segment 9
- I'm just gonna assume that Big Octo skip works the same way on 3DS
- Preboss room GS
- Beat Barinade
- Heart Container
- Zora's Sapphire
- Play Sun's Song
- Wall GS
- Tree GS
- Farore's Wind

Segment 10
- Know it All Bros House GS
- WWT Escape (I don't like having to do this slower escape but I'm not ready to go down ZR)
- To Lon Lon Ranch (I'm doing Lon Lon now b/c I want Epona when I go for Requiem in Adult 1)
- Malon House GS
- Tree GS
- Coral GS
- Tower GS
- Tower HP
- Play Sun's Song
- Epona's Song
- Milk Bottle
- To Kakariko
- Set FW Hyrule Field -> Kakariko Village

Segment 11
- If you can think of a place to get bugs since Jabu it'd be swell to get this dirt patch now, but it's not worth it to detour very far for them... I guess I could forgo the extra fish. Going to be a bit weird to figure out the best thing for this sort of stuff.
- To Deku

Segment 12
- Top floor GS
- Light torch to leave
- Break the web (no reasonable way to have Din's yet)
- 2 Basement GS
- Jump B1 skip
- Back room GS

Segment 13
- B1 skip
- Burn web
- 231
- Beat Gohma
- Heart Container, Kokiri's Emerald
- RI FW WW to Kakariko
- Learn "Fake" Nocturne of Shadow
- Tree GS (to pass time while waiting for Navi, I guess?)
- Construction house GS
- Navi Dive to BotW

Segment 14
- Bombchus (for a GS in LW, but maybe there's a better way than to get these Chus)
- Fake wall Key
- Coffin Key
- Centre room GS's
- Fake wall key
- Lower the water
- Hylian Shield
- Like Like GS
- Beat Dead Hand
- Rupees?
- Lens of Truth
- No way is this optimized... (Maybe a FW cast after the 2nd centre room GS and warp back after the Like Like?)

Segment 15
- Leave BotW (or Maybe a FW cast after Nocturne could save having to float out of here)
- To HF
- Tree Grotto GS
- Ocarina of Time
- Song of Time
- Guard House GS
- To Hyrule Castle
- Set FW
- Din's Fire
- Return FW
- Keaton Mask, I guess
- Open DoT
- Go adult, Light Medallion