OoT3D: 100% Segmented Discussion [NG+ Saw]

Yes we should RI CS Skip water. It saves time on normal oot and there they have to damage down and then bk skip again to get the heart. Just use the scarecrow song/longshot to reach fire arrows (or maybe there's a HSJ to save a couple seconds, what do I know).

That's kinda what I figured it would be like for water. Fire's going to have a few differences, of course. The problem with the CS skip is that it ties up our FW when we'd rather be using it in the dungeon. I haven't routed it out yet so I'm not sure where the FW uses would be so IDK how much time that's gonna lose. Besides that we have to make a trip somewhere to set FW and then probably watch a cutscene anyway, though hopefully a much shorter one. I'll work it out later.

Anyway, as for which cutscene to watch for Deku if I were to CS skip DC, I tested using ZF->Fairy and it just takes you to the ZF Fairy. It wouldn't let me play ZL unless I left and reentered, so there's nothing with that. The only thing is the cutscene was only like 35 seconds, so it's possible that that's faster than walking to Jabu and watching a piece of the sun's song CS and then falling OoB. I think whether or not this is done depends on how long it takes to WWT escape. It is what, like 50 seconds from the time you leave Link's house until you escape? And there's no TSC escape after you get ZL? If this is about right... and the Goron Ruby CS is well over a minute long then... I think I should do the CS skip? I'm gonna put it in the route, I guess. Somebody should test if it works on 3DS at some point. I should have check if it refilled my magic... I'd be sooo good if I could warp to Lon Lon but I can't really see a way to do it.

So... where does hammer save time water? I'm not sure there's any place that longshot saves time in fire except maybe a second or two at that first climb wall. So should I head to fire next?

If you have hoverboots and the hammer in water temple you can save probably about a minute because you don't have to do another silly tecktite dive. I suppose bombs would work, they'd just be more difficult to use.

Since this is segmented, unless it's TAS-only hard, it's not the difficulty that matters. So really the hammer is saving like 2 seconds over bombs? How many such 2-second time savers are there? Because I can think of a couple with the longshot in Fire. I mean there are a few GS's you can pick up a bit faster, at least. Those spinning tile rooms...

Besides all that I think I'd rather Iron Boots dive than Spell Dive.

Ah that's right, we should have the iron boots by then. However, we will still save time if we hoverboost to the third floor door instead of lowering the water.

benstephens1000 wrote

Ah that's right, we should have the iron boots by then. However, we will still save time if we hoverboost to the third floor door instead of lowering the water.

Don't you mean raising?

I think Fire and Water are interchangeable. The items in these temples will not change too much of the route or lose time. It would vary from person to person.

NG+ Route Child 1 WIP (5 segments completely tested)

My idea for seg 6 is to go back down Zora's River (there's a Skulltula near the ledge with the ladder, right? We'd get that), and go to KV. We'd RI Farore's Wind (for Nocturne FWWW in Deku) and save in BotW.

Seg 7 is BotW, then we S&Q after Lens.

Seg 8, we get Dampé HP and the GS on the wall, then the tower GS in KV and sidehop to roof HP, then S&Q.

Seg 9 is Deku Tree and WW to Nocturne, after which we S&Q. We could put BotW here instead as well, if you guys think that would work better.

Seg 10 is Lon Lon Ranch, Ocarina, Market, Din's Fire, and Master Sword.

What do you think?

Why are we adding so much for child one? I would like to add cutscene skips for Minuet, Bolero, Serenade and Prelude. We can move some stuff for child two.  ;)

Um... we can be thorough on Child 1 and still use cs skips, Fox... And why not be this thorough? I guess the boulder room and Deku grove GSs can be obtained later, but I really don't understand how flip-flopping through time is faster. This route gets a ton of things in a very well laid out path. Imo, the only reason regular OoT has so many Child sections is because they have a DoT skip that isn't ridiculous. When we go back in time for Child 2, I want to have warp songs so we can do the mask quest easily, polish off the remaining soil GSs quickly, and generally reduce overworld travel. Besides, I cut out quite a few things from Nook's original Seg'd route and saved them for Child 2, where they fit in along the mask quest.

I suppose things we can drop for now are Deku Grove GS, Boulder Room GS, Dampé HP, Graveyard wall GS, Tower GS, and Roof HP. These drops also streamline the route a bit, so I think they're good to save for later.

I like the sound of that Kix (said it right that time) . Do you think you could start trying to pump this out on a pastabin to make it more accessible and easy to shift through? I know that's a lot to ask considering how massive the route is, but I think it would be highly appreciated by all here. Of course nothing is set in stone yet, and for some things I'm sure that it doesn't really matter when we get them really. So it wouldn't have to be perfect but it would be a nice thing to have ;)

Sure Ben, I'll get right on that. I'll have a complete Child 1 pastebin in less than an hour. :)

You're the man Kix ;)
Thanks a bundle!

Sorry ben, it'll have to wait until tomorrow. The only computer available to me is an old shitty one that for some reason can't connect to the Internet. Also, I didn't sign into pastebin.com when I posted the WIP one, so I can't edit that on my 3DS. For now, just use the WIP pastebin that is already linked. I'll have a complete, edit enabled pastebin of the route tomorrow. Sorry for the inconvenience.

However, this will also allow me to complete the testing tonight. Wish me luck on the FWWW, I really need it right now.

CHILD 1 IS FINISHED!!!!!!! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Please give me some feedback on anything that should be switched around to make this faster. Please, only constructive criticism. If you don't like NG+ just ignore this post, because I don't care about what you have to say.

I'll start working on Adult 1 tomorrow (I have a four day weekend ;D)

Also, when are you guys on #OoT3D? Every time I go on, there is no one there. Did CloudMax talk you guys out of using it? Or are all of you in Europe and are sleeping when I'm able to get on the IRC?

"However, we will still save time if we hoverboost to the third floor door instead of [raising] the water."

In normal OoT this was done with a bomb. If it's impossible to do that without the hammer, then I guess we do have to get the hammer first, but... There's this one GS where it's like, if you don't have the longshot... ugh. You can't just walk forward and use the hookshot -- the tiles will get in your way. You can't just run up and grab the GS either because there's the Like Like right there and he WILL eat you unless you do something about him. If you don't lose 10 seconds I'd be surprised.

I think it's about time I checked if you skip the door of time opening CS by having the light arrow cutscene ready. I'm not sure if it'd save time if it did, but the CS is about 17 seconds so if I can get somewhere without losing 17 seconds, I might try it. It might be possible if I set at Colossus->Fairy and did Water and Spirit first... I'd need to time it to be sure and it doesn't matter if you can't use a bomb to do that trick in the water temple. But I mean, IDK if it works yet and if it doesn't I'm not sure it'd save time.

I routed the Fire Temple. It's weird. I do the CS skip and don't do the BK skip. Yeah IDK.

r0bd0g wrote

"However, we will still save time if we hoverboost to the third floor door instead of [raising] the water."

In normal OoT this was done with a bomb. If it's impossible to do that without the hammer, then I guess we do have to get the hammer first, but...

This can be done with a bomb. I'm personally am better at using a bomb rather than the hammer, honestly. I'm still not sure about which dungeon to do first.

I was hoping that the light arrow cutscene would play instead of the one I warped into, but it didn't. Oh well. And then when I dropped MS it played LACS instead of making me child. >_>

I'm gonna route water (this will probably amount to taking a look around on an old file and then copying most of the normal OoT route...) later tonight probably and then I'll make a decision.

Wow, what am I? Chopped liver?

Uh, just some quick thoughts.

"Use Graveyard Cucco for Impa HP"
How long does that take on 3DS? Is there some really quick 3DS-exclusive way? I plan on jumping down to this after I get the GS on Impa's House as adult. In general I feel the route often has similar problems -- stuff that you -could- get now, but it'd be faster to get it later. I'll give some more examples...

"Hylian Shield"
There's one of these in a chest in BoTW, right next to a GS you have to get. Since it's seg'd, you don't need to worry about getting your shield burned in DC -- you'll just try again if that happens.

"Follow-Along HP"
It'd be slightly faster to get this the same time you get the bullet bag upgrade. Also, you have to climb the ladder back out, which maybe that could be OK, but I'd rather end a seg there or Sun's Song warp out of there and go do something else. You have to make 2 more trips to LW to go to the forest stage, so there'll be a segment in LW where you have nothing to do after.

In segment 4, I feel like pretty much everything between the boulder maze gs and entering ZD should be done later. You need to make several more trips to Kak with masks, you don't have the songs for the frogs yet, the HP's would be faster if you had the boomerang...

Why do you need to kill the tentacles?

IDK, I guess I shouldn't really talk when I don't have this game and can't test my routes at all ha ha.

No man, I appreciate your input. I guess I was upset because I've worked so hard on this and I got blown off. Sorry for being a snob.

Impa HP: You can jump from the rafters of what will become the Archery house and reach the ledge. I suppose it would save time to get that after Impa Roof GS.

Hylian Shield: I have us get it there so anyone new running it RTA doesn't have to worry about troll Keese. Again, you are right about BotW.

Follow-Along HP: I meant to take this out along with a few other things. We'd probably get it while cleaning up Lost Woods in Child 2.

Boulder room GS is another thing I meant to take out. I don't know what you mean by saving the HPs for after we have Boomerang, they are right there and take only a few seconds to get. Same with the GS.

We kill the tentacles so we can get the GSs in B1. I wasn't aware you could get them otherwise?

Once again, sorry for being a snob. I will edit the route with your suggestions.

EDIT: It appears there were some huge miscalculations in the collection checkers. These have been fixed, and all of r0bd0g's suggestions have been implemented.

Lol, if you implement every suggestion I could have, the routes will end up almost the same. :p. See if you can find other things that you do extra.

I agree with when you're getting the boulder maze GS, though. My route does it too. The reason is that we have no other reason to come to GC again as child. I meant that the trip from GC though DMT, Kak, and ZR seemed redundant since you need to go past everything you get along that path again later. You won't have beans or adult's wallet as early but I think you can make due without them. I will have to see about the rupee route though because I suspect I will have a shortage.

You should be able to get those GS's in Jabu by falling down that first hole when coming back from the boomerang. You could watch seg 17 (iirc?) of the normal OoT segs to see what's done there.


Routing the water temple, I'm not sure what extra key I should get. Key in the spinning water room or the key off the main room you normally have to push a block around and hit an eye switch to get. The thing about the latter is that you have to spend a whole segment on it. There are two routes to get to it; I think coming in from the entrance on the top floor is probably slightly faster? At the least it's easier. The former is a really tricky place to get in an out of, especially if you try to a hookshot clip with all those shellblades there. It'll be faster on 3D what where you don't have to pause to switch boots a few times to get in. I think I'm leaning towards spending a whole segment on getting a single key. :/ I'm also not seeing the time saved for the hammer. I think I will do water first.

Can you get that GS in the waterfall room with just the hookshot? They use ISG on normal OoT. I think that means that it should technically be possible (?), but IDK for sure and the positioning might be slightly different on 3D.

I guess the last question I have to ask is if there's a clip to double defense.

Norkix wrote

Also, when are you guys on #OoT3D? Every time I go on, there is no one there. Did CloudMax talk you guys out of using it? Or are all of you in Europe and are sleeping when I'm able to get on the IRC?

I don't know how to get on it honestly. And yeah, Pedal lives in Finland.

r0bd0g wrote

Routing the water temple, I'm not sure what extra key I should get. Key in the spinning water room or the key off the main room you normally have to push a block around and hit an eye switch to get. The thing about the latter is that you have to spend a whole segment on it. There are two routes to get to it; I think coming in from the entrance on the top floor is probably slightly faster? At the least it's easier. The former is a really tricky place to get in an out of, especially if you try to a hookshot clip with all those shellblades there. It'll be faster on 3D what where you don't have to pause to switch boots a few times to get in. I think I'm leaning towards spending a whole segment on getting a single key. :/ I'm also not seeing the time saved for the hammer. I think I will do water first.

Can you get that GS in the waterfall room with just the hookshot? They use ISG on normal OoT. I think that means that it should technically be possible (?), but IDK for sure and the positioning might be slightly different on 3D.

We'll get the key in the spinning water room with a hookshot clip then warp away with FW potentially. The GS in the Waterfall room is still obtainable with the hookshot.

Lol, I don't think so. You do all the flip-flopping through time in your route, which I don't really understand. I'm seeing a maximum of three parts for both Child and Adult.

You need a tester r0bd0g. Not just for tricks, but also to test what time of day it is when you get to each area, because that could really effect your GS collection.

@Fox, once you are on the IRC (there's a link on the front page), type "/join #oot3d" That will get you there.

I logged into oot3d once. There was nobody there. :p

Did you time out the difference between that key and the one off the main room? I feel like the spinning water room is faster in RTA for sure, but since the resets aren't timed in seg'd, it might be better to grab the key off the main room by a couple seconds. I guess I'll take your word for it. Also, I don't plan on using FW at all in water temple. Everything is so close to the entrance that you'd lose time casting. My plan right now is to cast FW after serenade and end up there after RI FW CS skip to save the time you'd normally spend to leave water.

I don't flip time more than necessary. ... Time of day is a bit of a problem. I'm hoping that for the most part my time of day is probably correct but there are some things I feel like could be optimized better if I could rely a bit more on the normal passage of time.

I finished my first pass of the route. I gotta count the GS's and HP's and route out the rupees and magic. I'm not gonna route explosives or equips b/c that's a little bit much for me to try an attempt without actually owning the game, lol. Coincidentally, I have 68 segments, which is the same number of segments as the current 100% route for normal OoT. Maybe that'll change as I look it over, though.

okay, ben and I talked about the Adult routing in the IRC, and this is a rough outline of what we came up with.

Adult 1

Seg 10
play nocturne, enter shadow temple, get hovers, S&Q

Seg 11
leave, goron tunic, bolero cs skip, prescription, enter ice cavern, S&Q

Seg 12
Ice Cavern 100%, S&Q

Seg 13
Get Zora Tunic, get eyeball frog, tsc to lake hylia, scarecrow's song, get eyedrops, bombslides to biggoron, get claim check, get Biggoron Sword, enter fire, S&Q

Seg 14
Fire 100%, cs skip if there is one, reenter fire, S&Q

Seg 15
DC part 2, to LW via GC shortcut, minuet cs skip, play minuet, enter forest temple, S&Q

Seg 16
Forest 100%

That's as far as we got. Thoughts?

Also, purely by accident, I named my most recent test file Lunk. ;D

I kind of have an idea. After getting the prescription we could go to the lost woods through GC and then CS skip minuet. After that we could go to ZR via the shortcut in LW (no Navi dive because we'll have silver scale :D )
After fire 100% we could just play the warp song to the forest temple

That's actually a really good idea, ben! We'll do that.

I thought you went to bed?

When i try to join #oot3d theres no one there, not even the leaderboards link etc. However by PMing myself #OoT3d i can join it the right way...weird.

Pedalpowertoast wrote

When i try to join #oot3d theres no one there, not even the leaderboards link etc. However by PMing myself #OoT3d i can join it the right way...weird.

Make sure that you make irc.speeddemosarchive.com the server.

Coupla things.

I think the closest you'll be to the Ice Cavern is when you get the GS's in ZR. And I think when traveling to ZR would be a great time to grab some Poes, so probably you'll want to have Epona first. And maybe ZR isn't the fastest place you could go after getting Epona...

I thought you'd want to do Forest before Fire because you can save a bit of time by hitting this eye switch and then HSJ off the map chest.

Hopefully you don't have to deliver the eye drops and you can just warp like they do on normal OoT.

I'm hoping you can get the red rock GS's somehow without the hammer like the do on normal OoT. That should probably checked. And if it is, DC part 2 would be better after the BGS. I really want a way to get that GS in DC w/o the scarecrow. Maybe hookshot clip or something? I mean, you can push the armos but that's really really slow.


Also I realized you could probably longshot clip to the ladder to get the GS in ZF. It'd be slower than the OoB swimming thing but it would still probably have been better than getting the Silvers. In OoT you have to weird shot so you're a bit lower, so maybe it could be reached with the hookshot but I highly doubt it.