MM: Trick Research & Discovery Thread

DekuScrub wrote

Cfox's new OI method can be found here. It works in MM too apparently, although I haven't tried yet.

I'd like to know if it's possible for Fierce Deity to do this. If so, it would be the legitimate way to save the game with that form. Not that it's useful or anything.

SamusXLink wrote

I'm pretty sure that OoT cutscene ww is based on the same thing RBA is: the way the game stores information. If that's the case, then ww will not work in MM. Unless it's like MM RBA and it only works via the Curiosity Shop.

Or maybe the lottery. ;) That would be interesting.

For this same reason, getting B-bottle would do nothing. MM doesn't store data in the same way as OoT, so RBA that way doesn't work.

i know what they are talking about. what are YOU talking about.

Y O U

O M G

I'm trying to say that I don't think it's possible because of the differences in programming between the two games. I really don't see what's so hard to understand. I'm sorry that I confused you.

Also, Jeville, Fierce Deity Can't use bombs, so that wouldn't work.

SamusXLink wrote

Also, Jeville, Fierce Deity Can't use bombs, so that wouldn't work.

Normal Link can place it for FD to pick up.

That... might just work! Oh my Glob, that's an algebraic idea, go try that!

(sorry, I've been watching a lot of Adventure Time recently :-\)

And I forgot that there are bomb flowers in Woodfall boss room, so there's that too. I'm having no success with this shit.

Jeville wrote

And I forgot that there are bomb flowers in Woodfall boss room, so there's that too. I'm having no success with this shit.

I've already checked all this stuff with frame advance, chus and bombflowers don't work, you can't do OI with deku or goron (and I can't remember for sure but I don't think zora either)

Also, for those of you who haven't seen this yet, sva found another Japanese version difference: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_beodD1RdTI

I know that Bottle B wouldn't be like RBA in OoT. What I'm trying to say is it would be kind of cool to be able to do the glitch in MM.

Also, if Bottle B is possible in this game, this is something I am wondering about, based on Majora's HSW RBA: What would happen if we put Hot Spring Water in a B Bottle?

Of course, if we can't get B Button Bottle, this won't be possible. I think it could have some interesting effects, perhaps much different than known to occur with HSW RBA.

DekuScrub wrote

I know that Bottle B wouldn't be like RBA in OoT. What I'm trying to say is it would be kind of cool to be able to do the glitch in MM.

Also, if Bottle B is possible in this game, this is something I am wondering about, based on Majora's HSW RBA: What would happen if we put Hot Spring Water in a B Bottle?

Of course, if we can't get B Button Bottle, this won't be possible. I think it could have some interesting effects, perhaps much different than known to occur with HSW RBA.

Catching something in your B bottle replaces your ocarina with that item. That's all it's ever been observed to do.

Odd. The reason why I wondered is that Hot Spring Water sets a timer when you catch it, and it determines where it puts the timer based on what item slot the bottle is in, which is why Hot Spring Water RBA works. The sword's slot has not been tested yet. If that slot is somehow overwritten with a bottle, an extreme example of the sword becoming a bottle, what would that do?

Obviously that part is far fetched, but that is sort of my idea. What effects are caused by the B Button HSW timer? I'm interested in MM RBA style effects, not OoT RBA style inventory modifying effects.

There could be more to it than just the link between the Ocarina and the B Button.

The closest we have to having a bottle on B is as Zora Link that contains a beta item. It can be sold at the Curiosity Shop to empty it, but since it's not on a C button, it's not possible. The only character in the game that contains OoT's old trading method as far as I know (as in, without needing to be prompted with a text box to show the item) is the Deku Scrub requesting a Moon's Tear, and he don't want it.

GlitchesAndStuff wrote

http://youtu.be/tToWRLvbMH4

Uhh, Just thought I'd post this incase anyone has any ideas with it

So uh, going back to this Deku Scrub sword thing. I don't know if you were testing with this much, but the deku sword is as strong as the Great Fairy's Sword no matter what sword it's supposed to be (tested strength on Captain Keeta & Iron Knuckle). Isn't this enough reason to not trash the Deku Mask into a bottle and to consider a different mask for that? It's unfortunate that the Deku freezes on recoil, I imagine it must be near impossible to do the pirate fight on console in real-time for example. Something to consider for TAS to avoid sword recoil.

What cancels the deku sword:

* Returning from owl save or a reset.

* A full flower launch. A weak launch doesn't cancel it. A full launch won't cancel it if the Deku Nut slot is empty (or dupe a bottle over it).

The bird won't steal sword/bottle until you have the bow, so without a legitimate bottle in hand, the sword should be guaranteed to get stolen (?).

Razor Sword on 1st Day lol. You will still keep it after a reset.

ING-X wrote

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPVvniLFaJA&feature=youtu.be

if you're on VC you can place two bombs (at the same time) sort of close to you to cause even more lag. it has been working for me every time

Possible new goht strat?
Only difference with this one and SVA's strat is the lack of sidehopping, idk if this can be easily replicated though.

playe wrote

Possible new goht strat?
Only difference with this one and SVA's strat is the lack of sidehopping, idk if this can be easily replicated though.

it looks like all you did was just get lucky and not get hit by the lightning

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3X_6226vrwI - Skip Pinnacle Rock
EDIT: More
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=euDSvQ653wE - Infinite Time on Honey & Darling
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpwGGxGu7P0 - Infinite Time on Treasure Chest Game
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vWZl-CDr1k - Fight Odolwa on Epona
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBOJ1WUp-3o - Oath to Order Drop
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onW9mUVglsE - Freeze in Sakon's Hideout
Also, the Skipping Pinnacle Rock thing may turn out to not be faster, since it gets rid of the stuff that you normally lose when playing song of time and you have to dupe 7 bottles.

Yes, skipping Pinnacle Rock is slower. Does get me thinking for some quirky applications with stored Song of Time message.

The thing is, skipping the Pinnacle Rock eggs is almost definitely slower. Pinnacle rock and the 3 PF eggs take approximately the same amount of time (2:50). Since you need 3 extra bottles, you would need to dupe over deku mask, meaning you would need to take the old route which duped over deku and skipped bremen, costing 20 seconds. However, then you would need to get bremen anyway, costing an additional 35 seconds. Three extra bottle dupes would cost an additional 25-30 seconds as well. Ignoring the fact that you would need an additional 2 masks (which probably costs well over a minute), the fact that you lose all your chus and rupees because of the egg dupe glitch means that you would need to either take an extra bomb shop trip (costs 1:10) or postpone the pre-bottle dupe shop trip until later (costs 0:40 at least because of the 2 extra SoS). At this point, you're losing at least 2 minutes. Unless the extra masks and the extra time spent in PF combined are less than 50 seconds (pretty much zero chance), skipping pinnacle rock is slower.

So what would happen if you select Yes from the stored SoT message right after or before collecting the remains from the blue warp?

I just had a thought. This reset thing should enable us to get blast mask and all night mask in one cycle, thus breaking the 4 cycle limit for 100%. :)
Could somebody with skill test that?
Not sure if that would actually help anything, but it would be damn cool.

Also maybe you could use that to store a SoS in the sea side observatory and use it later to warp out of pinacle...
Is storing SoS possible?

Slowking wrote

I just had a thought. This reset thing should enable us to get blast mask and all night mask in one cycle, thus breaking the 4 cycle limit for 100%. :)
Could somebody with skill test that?
Not sure if that would actually help anything, but it would be damn cool.

Also maybe you could use that to store a SoS in the sea side observatory and use it later to warp out of pinacle...
Is storing SoS possible?

It is but after you load a dialogue box, the map SoS thing immediately comes up.

song of time storage allows for every category to be 2 cycles, including 100%

new trick also allows for ocarina dive

Jeville wrote

So what would happen if you select Yes from the stored SoT message right after or before collecting the remains from the blue warp?

It won't work because if you load the SOT dialogue in the boss room, you will get a "Your notes echoed far" or something like that.

Kaztalek wrote

song of time storage allows for every category to be 2 cycles, including 100%

new trick also allows for ocarina dive

Weren't there some events that happen at the same time? How would you be able to get them all in one cycle? That might be a little optimistic.
Also you still can't split the letter to madame aroma. So I would say it's still a 3 cycle minimum.

How do you Ocarina dive? When I tried, he just drops down without taking it out.

bluephantom340 wrote

It won't work because if you load the SOT dialogue in the boss room, you will get a "Your notes echoed far" or something like that.

Not during the battle though, only after it's over it will say that.

Slowking wrote

Weren't there some events that happen at the same time?

It's not every event that we need to be presented on time before it begins. Anju can wait all night for you, the dancing guru will appear and dance all night, etc. Your presence to be on time on the dot only matters for when Sakon starts stealing and the aliens to show up, due to their cutscene nature.

Slowking wrote

Weren't there some events that happen at the same time? How would you be able to get them all in one cycle? That might be a little optimistic.
Also you still can't split the letter to madame aroma. So I would say it's still a 3 cycle minimum.

If you store song of time, when opening a dialogue box, the sot text comes up asking to save. If you choose yes, the cycle resets (lose temporary items) but you don't go back in time. So you can get blast mask, postman's hat, and chateau romani bottle in the same cycle, I confirmed it myself.

It does the cutscene when the secret passage is opening but theres no woodfall temple. I have that demonstrated in the Epona fighting Odolwa video. Oh and you do the ocarina dive by holding any direction and mashing the ocarina.

Kaztalek wrote

If you store song of time, when opening a dialogue box, the sot text comes up asking to save. If you choose yes, the cycle resets (lose temporary items) but you don't go back in time. So you can get blast mask, postman's hat, and chateau romani bottle in the same cycle, I confirmed it myself.

Hmm guess you can get the letter again when you glitch into kafeis hideout. Is that right?
Didn't know the guy was still there at a time where you can give the latter to madame aroma or the postman.

Giant cutscene skip for all bosses:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhqoKXOlnqs