SS: Trick Research & Discovery

I dunno, I never pay attention to dowsing.

Paraxade wrote

Potions are not worth it, period. They take far too long to buy and upgrade, and there's not even any real point in it because they barely even help. You only visit the Bazaar once, to fix Scrapper, and you can't buy a potion then because you need both bottles to be empty for Fire Sanctuary water, so it would be a huge detour.

edit: also for the record, even if you already have bugs from hero mode, you can't upgrade potions without the bug net.

What do you mean you can't upgrade potions without the net? I was showing my friend Skyward Sword the other day (on hero mode) and the first thing I did when I got the first bottle was buy a health potion and upgrade it to show him the upgrade system.

But maybe when the net becomes available at Beedle's Shop, the guy tells you to buy it so you can upgrade potions. Possibly a bug in the code, because it shouldn't allow you to upgrade, then no longer allow it until a certain condition is met.

Hmm, that's weird. If that's the case, now I do wonder if upgrading potions is faster. But it sounds like you'd need to do it before you leave skyloft? Getting the extra silver rupee in Earth Temple + second visit to the bazaar + the large amount of text required to buy/upgrade potions. Also, you lose a lot of time since you only have one bottle open, when you need two for the Fire Sanctuary. So you'd need to make an extra trip to refill water, which would take at least 2 minutes. So my hunch is that the potion is still slower. It would need to save like 5 min, which is definitely does not.

I was just wondering on the skyward sword page on the bit warp section. Are all those question marks untested bit warp's?

Err, no. I think those were all tested, but they just haven't been updated. I'll see if I can fix that up today.

Bleh, they just aren't recorded in text. All the warps have now been tested I suppose, thanks to Kazooie. Just use the pictures, they describe better than words.

Yeah all warps is now tested. You can see where each warp leads from pictures. If you testrunner don't have time upload bitwarp page I can also do it :)

That would probably be for the best, I'm much busier than I'd like to be. Also I noticed that "Lanayru Caves" should be removed and "Boat Hangar" and "Skyloft" are missing their pictures. Many of the area names also needs to be corrected. Also the order of the statues in the pictures is different than the chart, so there should be a note made somewhere. I don't know if it's just me but when I load a pic the page goes blank and I have to go back. It's super inconvenient.

What exactly is the fastest way to create a corrupt file? I forgot.

Load File 1 (main file). Save at the upper academy. Die at the killing post. Activate BiT. Copy File 1 over to File 2 during a cutscene which the map button is disabled. Delete File 2 and then quickly save over it while it is still being deleted. And your file should be corrupted. You'll use it twice in a run: once after saving your bird, and once in skyview temple. In an any% run, you'll do it a third time to activate early light tower.

pivotguyDC1 wrote

What exactly is the fastest way to create a corrupt file? I forgot.

Forgot Completely about the main page.
****

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPbq-MK3Weg

yep

Paraxade wrote

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPbq-MK3Weg

yep

This is one of those times where I wonder what the hell they were thinking when they coded the game.
The developers should've been aware that there's a delay between the spawning and cutscene trigger and solve this issue. I honestly have no idea how problems like these manage to make it to the release... It's just stupid.

Damn, I should've known. It worked for the fi text after lmf, works the same way here. I wonder what other forced text/cs can be skipped this way.

It works after every dungeon, so you can jump before the Skyview Kikwi text or the AC Water Dragon text, too. You can't skip either of those though afaik.

I'm not sure I like this new trick >.> On one hand, yay saving a minute... on the other hand, boo replacing a 100% consistent trick with a much harder one. Seems like it'll also make it so a segmented run can't use that save prompt. :/ The jump doesn't seem to work when you load from the save.

Sigh, another frame perfect trick, yet no pause buffering. This also isn't really some that you can improve with practice, just mashing luck.

Well I mean, you can try it, and if you miss, then reset. Still worth a shot, maybe lose a second if you miss.

Good point.

Would hitting the home button at a specific moment after pressing A, closing the home menu and then hitting A help? I know that there is a small delay after closing the home menu, but I was wondering if it would be enough. Of course, there would be multiple points of reference we could use for timing when we might press home, but I wonder if any timing could work.

I doubt it. Pause buffering works because after you close the start menu, any input at that time will occur on the first frame, that way it can cause frame perfect. On SS, it doesn't do that, so it would be more reliable to just time it or mash the button.

iirc Kazooie tried it on an emulator and he said it was a 2-frame window, that sounds about right to me. I've done a few run attempts with it and I honestly get the cutscene skip more often than not. For a race or marathon run though, just save, attempt the skip, and if you don't get it then reset the game and use BiT.

Well, if it's 2 frame, then it's really not that bad. Proper mashing should get you a pretty good success rate. And yea, there's no reason not to attempt it. It just sucks that you lost like ~min for failing, which kind of blows for WR attempts. same for that text skip after LMF, which is way later in the game.

Can you skip skipper's text after lvl 5 with this method? Or talking to Groose when you land in Faron 2? There's a bunch of places that I don't know if this has been tested. It's impossible to know how big the trigger windows are (and therefore skippable) until they are individually tested :/ I should just attempt this like everywhere during my runs, when ever I feel like doing any% again.

We tried it after Ancient Cistern, no luck skipping the dialogue with the water dragon... didn't try the Skipper dialogue because I couldn't remember if there was one.

And yeah, messing up the Wing Ceremony cs skip does suck for runs, but it's less than 10 minutes in, saves an entire minute, and works pretty often. There's really no reason not to use it for a serious run. :P The LMF skip isn't such a big deal, it's 15 seconds in English... should be a bit less in Japanese. Not really a whole lot for a trick with a 2-frame window two hours in.

Yesterday, Ahabob talked about finding out the difference between Skyview 0 and Skyview 1 by looking at the save itself. If someone can get me two different saves located within Skyview 0 and Skyview 1 that are nearly identical, it would help us hone in on it.

There should be good. File 1 is Skyview_1. File 3 is Skyview_0.

Ran a comparison on the two files. The address offset from the start of the save is on the far left, the left most number is a byte from the Skyview1 save, the right number is a byte from the Skyview0 save. I got rid of everything between 0x0000 and 0x0033 inclusive and the checksum from the output returned.

08E5: 30 10
0A60: 07 08
0A61: 80 00
1A76: F8 88
1B15: 08 00
530E: 56 57
530F: 96 1A
5312: 56 57
5313: 96 1A

Edit:
0A60-1 is slingshot ammo. 0800h = 16 seeds left, 0780h = 15 seeds left. Very odd.
530E-F and 5312-3 I can't figure out, but I don't think they have anything to do with Skyview0

It looks like setting 0x20 in 0x08E5 converts Skyview 0 into Skyview 1. The flag is set only when the door opening cutscene plays, because I was able to set the door to open and still be in Skyview0

Here's that Bokoblin Base trick I mentioned:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRX_PjCfYtE

I can't tell if that trick is faster than the alternative (running up the wall) because of setup time. Although it looks like it might be a little faster. But it really doesn't matter much since you have to wait the the lava platform anyways >_>

Hey guess what! BitLoading sucks!

The route I had originally planned did not work. First, early light pillars glitch is so limited that it became useless (or near useless), so you still have to beat the first three dungeons. While the glitch work sin theory, in practice, the route will not be faster.

Early skykeep is much less useful than I originally had planned. You still need to get the master sword and open the Gate of Time, or you get a dead end when you need to enter the past to fight Demise (I though you entered the past automatically after the triforce cutscene, but nope). So in all, pre-made files only lets you skip the Song of Hero and the Skyloft Trials, which is like 1-1.5 hours from a 6 run. While this is still a lot, I don't really like the idea of using pre-made files for just skipping Song of Hero. It's pretty controversial. I had supported it before since the route was very bizarre and interesting, and the length was good, but now it's the same as any% except you skip the Song of Hero...

That really sucks. At least we can skip first imprisoned and fixing scrapper. This game really need some new glitches. What was dead end like? Was it like there is no stone pillar in temple or something?