SS: Trick Research & Discovery

Tamis wrote

Also it looks it would be hard to get if there was a way to get it (the boss key skip), so better stick to getting the key and just using it I think :p

Never think like that when it comes to speedrunning.
People do tricks that is a thousand times harder in other zelda games all the time.

And if we do find a way to get it, there will most likely be a set up available shortly after its discovery.
Not to mention that it would be a great addition to segmented runs.

The only way I could see this clip happening would be to climb up like in the video. We need some way to prevent link from getting pushed out, or a way to climb further to the right.

Sounds like you would have to repeat the skip a second time when you return to the dungeon, which might take up most or all of the time you'd save from the trick during the first visit.

TheOthin wrote

Sounds like you would have to repeat the skip a second time when you return to the dungeon, which might take up most or all of the time you'd save from the trick during the first visit.

TheOthin wrote

Sounds like you would have to repeat the skip a second time when you return to the dungeon, which might take up most or all of the time you'd save from the trick during the first visit.

IF the door stays locked.
The dungeon actors acts a bit strange in skyview since you visit it two times.
Maybe it just automatically opens the door when you trigger the second scenario in the dungeon.

If it doesn't, then a boss key skip would be completely useless.

That's what I was asking about in the video comments, and from what Paraxade said, it sounds like it does.

I don't know if it does. I assume it wouldn't change because there's really no reason for it to change.

Paraxade wrote

I don't know if it does. I assume it wouldn't change because there's really no reason for it to change.

That is the logic that we can't use when it comes to skyward sword actors.
There is no reason to now have the first scenario in skyview loaded on default, yet you have open the temple door for the game to actually spawn the actors that should've been spawned by default.

I would not be surprised if the second visit automatically opens the boss door.

Yeah, we can't know unless we test specifically what state it's in if we skip the boss key and come back during the Sacred Water quest. Which shouldn't take too long to test with Lake Hylia early, can it?

On that note, isn't it possible to start the Sacred Water quest early with Lake Hylia early... even before the first trip through Skyview Temple? Do we know what effect that might have on the dungeon?

TheOthin wrote

Yeah, we can't know unless we test specifically what state it's in if we skip the boss key and come back during the Sacred Water quest. Which shouldn't take too long to test with Lake Hylia early, can it?

On that note, isn't it possible to start the Sacred Water quest early with Lake Hylia early... even before the first trip through Skyview Temple? Do we know what effect that might have on the dungeon?

I don't think so, since Water Dragon isn't present until you get the scale.

According to someone on gamefaqs http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/960633-the-legend-of-zelda-skyward-sword/61353969 there seems to be a way to get the bokoblin capture even to trigger early, if this is somehow reproducible then it should prove very useful

I doubt it would give you the mogma mitts... But it's worth a shot. What are the triggers necessary to actually start the sequence? I can't think of anything that could start it that early...

Iirc, the boss door in Faron is open the second time, cuz I used the cheat to walk through walls. I'll check if I have time tonight.

Very doubtful it would give the Mitts.

I mean, you should have them at that point, so you don't "lose" them. The other items are lost, or rather replaced. Then you replace the new items (Unusable Bokoblin icons) with the original items.


Anyways, he mentioned that he did "those 3 sidequests" as a potential reason, but I'm kinda doubtful of that.

Also, if someone cares, I'm almost positive the "heated area" prompt is forced on first time you go there, even on Hero Mode.

You do lose the mitts. You're supposed to pick up a barrel inside the cage to make a mogma pop up, and he gives you the mitts.

Doh. Yeah, that's the level of my memory again. :K

Baron Dante wrote

Anyways, he mentioned that he did "those 3 sidequests" as a potential reason, but I'm kinda doubtful of that.

Also, if someone cares, I'm almost positive the "heated area" prompt is forced on first time you go there, even on Hero Mode.

It sounds really odd, but I still think we should ask him what the sidequests are. As soon as we can convince him not to listen to the people telling him to restart.

I have to say, I'm really hesitant to believe he's telling the truth, but we can't take any chances. We need to all be on there now persuading him to keep the file, to get a video, and if possible, to make a backup of the file. After we can verify as much as we can, we can see about duplicating it.

As for the "heated area" prompt, it is absolutely not forced on Hero Mode. I verified this earlier; it was my first time traveling into the area on Hero Mode, and the message did not appear, although Fi blinked to let me know I should talk to her.

That's an oddity. I could've sworn it was forced.

Well, I took a look at IGN's (Ugh) walkthrough, and it didn't force that thing upon you. Even on Normal mode.


Anyways, made sure to poke the thread about the Eldin oddity.

I couldn't find this in the thread, so I'll just post it; you can skip ramming the eyes on Levias and the introductory cutscene to Bilocyte, as long as you're willing to fight Bilocyte blind:

Invisible Bilocyte Glitch, discovered by srb2Espyo

My bad, coulda sworn you still had the mitts...

Ugh the beginning is so long... Even with cheats, you still need to get the training sword, race(for the sailcloth), and then get the goddess sword. I still can't imagine a way around this.

That Bilocyte video was interesting. Shouldn't be too hard to do it that way either.

a quick question though: Can the Lanayru Desert skip (Skipping the updated map with one of the shells used as extra height) be done without a shield?

As long as you need to use that snail thingy monster, I don't think you can skip getting a shield. You need to push it against the wall in order to climb it, if it stuns itself I think it will be too far.

That bilocyte glitch is kinda cool, skips all the eyeballs which can be a pain in the ass (in a single segment mostly), and it's just half blind cause you can Z lock him.

Thing is you'd need triggers before to get to the boss, cause you need the "tornado spin" thingy for the bird in order to have access to the soup to bring him, so you still gotta do that crap :p

I'm still working on getting the desert skip with a shield :/
Still, If you could get it to hit between the part that juts out and the clawshot target first.
Then get it to hit the part that juts out and while it's stunned, hit it once with the sword so it will roll instead of dig.
If you can somehow manage to get the right angle off of the little pillar/island w/e, it may be close enough to get it. Just a theory. Still, a shield would be much more effective and timesaving in the long run for Lanayru.

OMG LEVIAS EYE SKIP!!!!!  I couldn't stand that part, so damn frustrating. 

well I've been messing around with the save file that was posted on gamefaqs. no idea what causes it still, but long story short, it seems completely useless for a speedrun even if we can replicate it.

details:

The guy is saved outside Skyview Temple. Seems like the last thing he did was finish the dungeon and then save at the statue outside of it. For some reason though the game thinks he's supposed to go to Fire Sanctuary. The file select screen says to go to Fire Sanctuary and Fi says to go to the third sacred flame in Eldin Volcano. So after you go drop off the tablet at the statue and go to Eldin, the eruption sequence triggers.

So here's the thing. When you wake up in the cage, there's nothing there. Bokoblin standing in front of the entrance is gone, there's nothing in the cage including the barrel you're supposed to pick up, so you're permanently stuck inside the cage. Using cheats, if you leave the cage and explore the volcano, there's a lot of actors scattered around (enemies, bomb flowers, cutscene triggers) but the mogma, bokoblins and chests are all not present. The loading zone to go to the volcano summit is also gone. The weird part though, is apparently if you talk to the Sheikah Stone and then back out of the menu, it'll load the actors so you can actually go through the sequence like normal. You can get every item except the bow. When you get to the crater, the Goddess Sword is there instead of the True Master Sword. You can get the adventure pouch and the sword and then go see Fire Dragon.

Now there's still a lot of problems.

-The game sets most of Eldin to the post-boko base part. This is problematic, because the door to the Earth Temple is still closed, but the key pieces are not there. So at this point you're basically screwed.
-You apparently can't dig without the Digging Mitts, even if you have the Mogma Mitts. I guess the digging mitts are what actually let you dig in holes, and the Mogma Mitts stack on top of them and let you burrow :s
-Because it's the post-boko base part, you can't get the Digging Mitts.
-The Fi trigger preventing you from going to the summit reappears.
-As for even getting through the sequence to begin with: two big problems. First off, the fact that you're stuck in the cage, and second, you don't have Fireshield Earrings, which means you take constant damage inside the volcano. The only remotely feasible way to get out of the cage that I can think of is to die. The only remotely feasible way to get through the volcano without the earrings is to take a Guardian Potion + or ++, whatever the max is, and get through the sequence as fast as possible. These things kind of cancel each other out. Guardian Potion would make it impossible to die, but then not taking the Guardian Potion would make it impossible to get through the volcano without the earrings.
-Everything except Eldin works perfectly fine. There's nothing unusual in Faron or Skyloft, and the Faron SotH event won't trigger.

Soo yeah. It seems completely useless. Would still be cool to find out why it happens though. Oh also... the extra dowsing slots are BS lol. After you complete the bokoblin base, you can go and get the ability to dowse for rupees even though you haven't unlocked the extra slots. The game lets you select the option anyway even though it's not visible in the menu. Anyway, that's mostly it.

The only way to have any chance in hell of this being useful imo is if we can avoid triggering the sequence until after going to Eldin, getting the digging mitts and opening the Earth Temple... that way there's at least a shot of being able to get through the crater and continue the game afterwards.

That's unfortunate... but we know it's real, and it sounds like it could somehow be duplicated. The questions are, how, when, and what could we do differently? Maybe there are some abnormalities in Faron that could explain what he did.

Also, speaking of the bow, is it even in the last chest with the adventure pouch if you didn't get it in the first place? If not, did that cause any more issues with reaching the dragon to end the quest and leave the area?

Nope, and no, you can use the beetle to cut the rope.

Wrongwarps
Behind the temple > Sealed Grounds
Freeze
Sealed Grounds > Behind the Temple
Flooded Faron Woods
Sealed Temple > Behind the Temple
Hylia Temple (back in time)
Sealed Temple > Sealed Grounds
Freeze

Hylia Temple > Behind Locked Door
Sealed Temple (forward in time)

The flooded faron woods and hylia temple wrong warps will most likely never be possible.
As soon as the game registers that you're in the areas the statues despawn. The walk on air code prevents the game from detecting this though, and that's why I'm able to test these statues.

Anyway, those two must be the most interesting wrong warps so far.


Also, Bokoblin base early causes loading zones to go away in the area.

Talking to the shiekah stone will cause the bokoblin base to load properly. The zone probably reload when you exit the menues. Entering and exiting the area should fix this aswell, but that isn't possible since all the loading zones are gone.

If you die you will respawn outside of the jail. (between the jail and the landing point) You can't get to the shiekah stone from here sadly. But it doesn't really matter anyway, since we can't die without cheats to begin with.

You can't get sacred water at the end of the first dungeon on this save file either.

Landing in sealed grounds won't prevent the bokoblin base from triggering, so the bokoblin base sequence has probably already started (Which may be why it mess up when you get there. Normally the sequence start when you reach the area, not before).

I may have forgotten something... I've tested quite a lot of things today.

Edit:
I did further testing with the Wrongwarp that takes you to temple of hylia. This time I tested it on a brand new file (before I even talked to granny), and these are the results:
The cutscene of you entering the temple is all messed up, the camera is OoB in the sealed grounds.
The gate of time is missing.
The door to sealed grounds (the temple entrance door) is missing.
The huge doors that leads into the room that zelda is in is also missing.
Impa is there and acts as if it is your first visit, just like she is supposed to.

Because the gate was missing, I attempted to do the wrong warp that takes you back to the present time.
After you return to the present and the cutscene of you exiting the gate of time starts, the camera will mess up and end up OoB, and then the game softlocks.

So, Temple of Hylia early through wrong warp is not possible. You'll have to activate the gate.

New method to get OoB in Faron Woods.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzG7MVw6Afo&lc=L2fUTlJFP_zkibvBqx1IxRNKU8tuefeTuvh-yHoenPc&feature=inbox

It isn't shown in the video but you can use it to get to Lake Floria early by luring the giant moblin up to the area where I entered Faron Woods from. Once you done that get the moblin side on with the wall with his spear hand next to the wall. As soon as you hear his grunting noise indicating he's about to attack side hop right,then run up the side of his shield and grab the ledge (not front on like I do in this video).

Mitjitsu wrote

New method to get OoB in Faron Woods.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzG7MVw6Afo&lc=L2fUTlJFP_zkibvBqx1IxRNKU8tuefeTuvh-yHoenPc&feature=inbox

It isn't shown in the video but you can use it to get to Lake Floria early by luring the giant moblin up to the area where I entered Faron Woods from. Once you done that get the moblin side on with the wall with his spear hand next to the wall. As soon as you hear his grunting noise indicating he's about to attack side hop right,then run up the side of his shield and grab the ledge (not front on like I do in this video).

Wait, wait, wait. Is he even there before you get to Lake Floria? I can't remember him being there before lake floria?

I think the enemies change right after AC. Can't fully remember though.

You fight a Moblin when you're climbing up that tree to reach the Kikwi that helps you reach AC, and I'm certain that's not the first Moblin I remember fighting. So they change sometime before that, probably after the first battle with The Imprisoned or something else around that time.

I'm pretty sure it changes when you're going to do the trials, so yes he's there before LF